2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Shal_Leg16]

leclerc pace advantage is only due to the car fitting him better.
Leclerc prefers oversteer cars
Sainz prefers understeer cars

Ferrari NEEDS a car with a better rear train and neutral balance because the actual car, slides a lot on the rear and this is costing a lot of performance on race pace and making both drivers prone to errors spining like the early season spins of sainz and most recent leclerc spins.

I am neither a Leclerc fan, nor a Sainz fan, but i do not think its true that its only due to the car fitting Leclerc better. Leclerc has 5 victories, 15 Poles and 7 Fastest laps in 91 GPs against Sainz 1 victory, 2 poles and 3 fastest laps in 151 races. Sainz won Formula Renault but was only P10 in GP3, a series that Leclerc has won next to F2. Leclerc was always among the Top 4 in any junior series he competed while Sainz wasn't. He even ended up in P 9, P 10, P19. So in general Leclerc is far more sucessfull. Coincident? Bad luck all the time? Possible, but i hardly doubt that Sainz always had worse cars(especially in the junior formulas which all have the same chassis and engine etc.)or bad luck. The same trend continues in F1. You can turn it however you want, but all this is at least an indicator of Leclerc being the faster driver. And at the end of the day, being sucessfull is what determines who is the "faster" or "better" driver. And in that regard there is no doubt that Leclerc is clearly ahead of Sainz.

For the car - the F1-75 was a very well balanced car. Now it isn't(drivers are constantly complaining about its balance recently). It may be the last aero upgrade with less outwash of the outer tunnel entrances that changed the loads, it may be the new TD and its implications that changed the loads or a combination of things. But the car is definetely not as well balanced as it used to be because of the implications i already mentioned in one of my previous posts.

do your realise how poor these arguments are ...leclerc's pace advantage is only due to car suiting him better...if you converse that statement its like saying ...Sainz and Leclerc are on equal level if provided equal car...

Then they complain why Sainz is targated ( by Leclerc fans )

[RTruth41]

leclerc pace advantage is only due to the car fitting him better.
Leclerc prefers oversteer cars
Sainz prefers understeer cars

Ferrari NEEDS a car with a better rear train and neutral balance because the actual car, slides a lot on the rear and this is costing a lot of performance on race pace and making both drivers prone to errors spining like the early season spins of sainz and most recent leclerc spins.

I am neither a Leclerc fan, nor a Sainz fan, but i do not think its true that its only due to the car fitting Leclerc better. Leclerc has 5 victories, 15 Poles and 7 Fastest laps in 91 GPs against Sainz 1 victory, 2 poles and 3 fastest laps in 151 races. Sainz won Formula Renault but was only P10 in GP3, a series that Leclerc has won next to F2. Leclerc was always among the Top 4 in any junior series he competed while Sainz wasn't. He even ended up in P 9, P 10, P19. So in general Leclerc is far more sucessfull. Coincident? Bad luck all the time? Possible, but i hardly doubt that Sainz always had worse cars(especially in the junior formulas which all have the same chassis and engine etc.)or bad luck. The same trend continues in F1. You can turn it however you want, but all this is at least an indicator of Leclerc being the faster driver. And at the end of the day, being sucessfull is what determines who is the "faster" or "better" driver. And in that regard there is no doubt that Leclerc is clearly ahead of Sainz.

For the car - the F1-75 was a very well balanced car. Now it isn't(drivers are constantly complaining about its balance recently). It may be the last aero upgrade with less outwash of the outer tunnel entrances that changed the loads, it may be the new TD and its implications that changed the loads or a combination of things. But the car is definetely not as well balanced as it used to be because of the implications i already mentioned in one of my previous posts.

do your realise how poor these arguments are ...leclerc's pace advantage is only duet to car suiting him better...if you converse that statement its like saying ...Sainz and Leclerc are in equal level if provided equal car...

Then they complaint why Sainz is targated ( by Leclerc fans )

that statement is just plain stupid , but thats how F1 is. there are enough factors involved so that you can pick and choose whatever to suit your argument.

to sum it up ...this is a never ending saga. both side of fans feel they are right and other is wrong but there is no denying that Sainz fans try to oversail him beyond reality. This is perfect example of that, there is a clear attempt to discard any pace difference between the two which is not fact.

And if you are putting such arguments then its really hard not to expect Leclerc fans not giving some slack on Sainz.

[Andres125sx]

I am neither a Leclerc fan, nor a Sainz fan, but i do not think its true that its only due to the car fitting Leclerc better. Leclerc has 5 victories, 15 Poles and 7 Fastest laps in 91 GPs against Sainz 1 victory, 2 poles and 3 fastest laps in 151 races. Sainz won Formula Renault but was only P10 in GP3, a series that Leclerc has won next to F2. Leclerc was always among the Top 4 in any junior series he competed while Sainz wasn't. He even ended up in P 9, P 10, P19. So in general Leclerc is far more sucessfull. Coincident? Bad luck all the time? Possible, but i hardly doubt that Sainz always had worse cars(especially in the junior formulas which all have the same chassis and engine etc.)or bad luck. The same trend continues in F1. You can turn it however you want, but all this is at least an indicator of Leclerc being the faster driver. And at the end of the day, being sucessfull is what determines who is the "faster" or "better" driver. And in that regard there is no doubt that Leclerc is clearly ahead of Sainz.

For the car - the F1-75 was a very well balanced car. Now it isn't(drivers are constantly complaining about its balance recently). It may be the last aero upgrade with less outwash of the outer tunnel entrances that changed the loads, it may be the new TD and its implications that changed the loads or a combination of things. But the car is definetely not as well balanced as it used to be because of the implications i already mentioned in one of my previous posts.

do your realise how poor these arguments are ...leclerc's pace advantage is only duet to car suiting him better...if you converse that statement its like saying ...Sainz and Leclerc are in equal level if provided equal car...

Then they complaint why Sainz is targated ( by Leclerc fans )

that statement is just plain stupid , but thats how F1 is. there are enough factors involved so that you can pick and choose whatever to suit your argument.

to sum it up ...this is a never ending saga. both side of fans feel they are right and other is wrong but there is no denying that Sainz fans try to oversail him beyond reality. This is perfect example of that, there is a clear attempt to discard any pace difference between the two which is not fact.

And if you are putting such arguments then its really hard not to expect Leclerc fans not giving some slack on Sainz.

So you complain about fanboyism of some Sainz fans... But at the same time you assume all fans are that biased, so you justify Sainz bashing...

Then sorry, but that means you're as much of a fanboy as those you're complaining about

There are absurd arguments on any side, if you assume all fans are equally biased, then no civilized nor sensible discussion will ever happen. Would you like to be considered a Leclerc fanboy who can't see reality just because some other Lecrerc fan said anything unrealistic?

Generalizing is the easiest and fastest way to mess it up, if X person said something absurd, reply that person, but please do not assume everybody is the same

Edit: I replied your post, but my comment is not about yourself exactly, more of a general reply to those who justify Sainz bashing, like Shal_leg16, just because some fans are not realistic

[mendis]

leclerc pace advantage is only due to the car fitting him better.
Leclerc prefers oversteer cars
Sainz prefers understeer cars

Ferrari NEEDS a car with a better rear train and neutral balance because the actual car, slides a lot on the rear and this is costing a lot of performance on race pace and making both drivers prone to errors spining like the early season spins of sainz and most recent leclerc spins.

Do you know almost all the great drivers likes pointy and oversteery car? Equally, they can adapt if the car isn't up to their comfort and still get the best possible results and consistently beat their team mates. There is more time to be gained with an oversteery car than an understeery one. If a driver is unable to adapt to an oversteery car, then it's a problem with the driver. Blaming the car suiting his team mate is a pointless argument.

This year's pirelli fronts are suspectible for sliding and have less grip at the front and known to be understeery. Pirelli has already mentioned that they are going to cure it to provide more grip next year! If Sainz cannot adapt, then he is going down the Ricciardo way.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pire ... /10329084/

Pirelli plans to introduce a stronger front tyre next year to reduce the understeer that a number of Formula 1 drivers, including Max Verstappen, don’t like with the current cars.

[Andi76]

leclerc pace advantage is only due to the car fitting him better.
Leclerc prefers oversteer cars
Sainz prefers understeer cars

Ferrari NEEDS a car with a better rear train and neutral balance because the actual car, slides a lot on the rear and this is costing a lot of performance on race pace and making both drivers prone to errors spining like the early season spins of sainz and most recent leclerc spins.

I am neither a Leclerc fan, nor a Sainz fan, but i do not think its true that its only due to the car fitting Leclerc better. Leclerc has 5 victories, 15 Poles and 7 Fastest laps in 91 GPs against Sainz 1 victory, 2 poles and 3 fastest laps in 151 races. Sainz won Formula Renault but was only P10 in GP3, a series that Leclerc has won next to F2. Leclerc was always among the Top 4 in any junior series he competed while Sainz wasn't. He even ended up in P 9, P 10, P19. So in general Leclerc is far more sucessfull. Coincident? Bad luck all the time? Possible, but i hardly doubt that Sainz always had worse cars(especially in the junior formulas which all have the same chassis and engine etc.)or bad luck. The same trend continues in F1. You can turn it however you want, but all this is at least an indicator of Leclerc being the faster driver. And at the end of the day, being sucessfull is what determines who is the "faster" or "better" driver. And in that regard there is no doubt that Leclerc is clearly ahead of Sainz.

For the car - the F1-75 was a very well balanced car. Now it isn't(drivers are constantly complaining about its balance recently). It may be the last aero upgrade with less outwash of the outer tunnel entrances that changed the loads, it may be the new TD and its implications that changed the loads or a combination of things. But the car is definetely not as well balanced as it used to be because of the implications i already mentioned in one of my previous posts.

do your realise how poor these arguments are ...leclerc's pace advantage is only due to car suiting him better...if you converse that statement its like saying ...Sainz and Leclerc are on equal level if provided equal car...

Then they complain why Sainz is targated ( by Leclerc fans )

I advise you to read what i said properly. I never said that Sainz and Leclerc are equal...or that Leclerc is only faster because the car suits him better... i literally said that this is bs and these arguments are stupid, because if you compare their careers its getting obvious who is the faster and more talented one.

[Andi76]

Sadly Monza is another SPA outlier....

By the way - it seems like you have probably mistaken me as a Ferrari fan. I am not a fan of any team or any driver. So i never have any problem of saying one team has a better car than the other one, or did a better job etc. But as I rely solely on facts as numbers and not on sympathy or emtions. So whats a problem for a lot of people here(as too many of them are biased)- i do not need to find excuses for one team or another or "what-ifs".

[JPower]

Then we have Binotto and Mekies statements earlier this year when they said that they would have developed the car to help Sainz. These are real statements that you can easily find by searching on google.

Last but not least the overall performance of the car has gone downhill and Leclerc started complaining about the balance in quali and in the race, making everyone a bit angrier than before which didn't help.

I’ve heard them say repeatedly they were working on the setup for Sainz, not developing the car towards him. There’s a difference.

Sainz complained about balance as well, understeer at Silverstone, Hungary, and most recently Zandvoort.

What does Leclerc complaining about balance have to do with his teammate?

[JPower]

I'm not addressing the question of who won Silverstone. I'm addressing the question of who the faster driver is. Sainz winning silverstone is no indication of his pace relative to Leclerc as the OP tried to claim.

I haven't seen one person say Sainz was faster than Leclerc in recent posts.

Be honest , hasnt there been any post on same narratives here that Sainz is better /faster ?

Nope. I’ve seen people suggest he males better strategy calls, and might drive with less abandon, but none saying he’s faster.

[JPower]

I'm not addressing the question of who won Silverstone. I'm addressing the question of who the faster driver is. Sainz winning silverstone is no indication of his pace relative to Leclerc as the OP tried to claim.

I haven't seen one person say Sainz was faster than Leclerc in recent posts.

The post I quoted said that Sainz could have won more races if Ferrari strategy and reliability didn't hinder him.

That would imply that he would have also beaten Charles Leclerc.

He could’ve won in Monaco. Low probability but it could’ve happened.

[JPower]

Do you know almost all the great drivers likes pointy and oversteery car? Equally, they can adapt if the car isn't up to their comfort and still get the best possible results and consistently beat their team mates. There is more time to be gained with an oversteery car than an understeery one. If a driver is unable to adapt to an oversteery car, then it's a problem with the driver. Blaming the car suiting his team mate is a pointless argument.

This year's pirelli fronts are suspectible for sliding and have less grip at the front and known to be understeery. Pirelli has already mentioned that they are going to cure it to provide more grip next year! If Sainz cannot adapt, then he is going down the Ricciardo way.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pire ... /10329084/

Pirelli plans to introduce a stronger front tyre next year to reduce the understeer that a number of Formula 1 drivers, including Max Verstappen, don’t like with the current cars.

There’s a difference between having rear end instability and having front end grip.

Sainz is very violent with his steering inputs and frequently loses front end grip early-mid corner because of it. Watch his onboards.

The new tires should actually help.

[RTruth41]

I haven't seen one person say Sainz was faster than Leclerc in recent posts.

Be honest , hasnt there been any post on same narratives here that Sainz is better /faster ?

Nope. I’ve seen people suggest he males better strategy calls, and might drive with less abandon, but none saying he’s faster.

There is a saying that...." One can only wake up someone who is sleeping, one that is just acting you cant wake him up "

Here on same page there are comments in same narrative that ...only reason Leclerc is better is because the car suits him. as if, if that was not the case or the car was equally balanced Sainz would match or outperform Leclerc.

its does not have to be written in bold that ... Sainz is better. the arguments being provided explain the post. bluntly denying it doesn't make any sense.

[JPower]

Be honest , hasnt there been any post on same narratives here that Sainz is better /faster ?

Nope. I’ve seen people suggest he males better strategy calls, and might drive with less abandon, but none saying he’s faster.

There is a saying that...." One can only wake up someone who is sleeping, one that is just acting you cant wake him up "

Here on same page there are comments in same narrative that ...only reason Leclerc is better is because the car suits him. as if, if that was not the case or the car was equally balanced Sainz would match or outperform Leclerc.

its does not have to be written in bold that ... Sainz is better. the arguments being provided explain the post. bluntly denying it doesn't make any sense.

You can interpret it how you want.

Regardless, if you don’t believe it, why are you giving it such heavy attention?

[organic]

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10364527/

Italian Motorsport reports that they'll test the pre-france floor against the new one again. They will do this test in FP

They also report that the PU map will be aggressive this weekend. Better to risk breakdowns than to have a poor race finishing 3rd/4th

[JPower]

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-fe ... /10364527/

Italian Motorsport reports that they'll test the pre-france floor against the new one again. They will do this test in FP

They also report that the PU map will be aggressive this weekend. Better to risk breakdowns than to have a poor race finishing 3rd/4th

That would be disappointing if the issue was the new floor.

It seemed to work well in France. But, it would make sense to test given the drop in performance seen before the TD.

[Vanja #66]

Reading this post looks like you consider Ferrari mistakes with Lecrerc are Sainz responsibility?

Reading this post looks like you should take more time reading posts before you reply