Ferrari F2012

[omar2726]

When they say the problem is with low speed traction, does anyone here know what exactly the problem is? Understeer? Oversteer? For example, in Sepang, in what corners do the symptoms occur? Entry or exit?

Based on my understanding F2012's problem is more on the aero side, no? Since they did not get the exhaust working to seal the diffuser, they had to lower the rake. In effect, they got the diffuser to work in high speed corners, but due to the low rake and stiffer rear suspension (stiff rear to avoid bottoming out because of the lower than designed rake???), low speed traction suffers. Am I making sense? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Just wanted to make sure if I still follow the discussion.

Thank you very much.
Omar

[raymondu999]

When people talk of traction around here it generally (note: generally) means how quick you can go full throttle from the apex onwards.

[Afterburner]

Some say F2012 has good traction because they've won a wet race but don't forget, they could have gambled with a wet setup and it paid off.

[omar2726]

When people talk of traction around here it generally (note: generally) means how quick you can go full throttle from the apex onwards.

Thanks. Sometimes I get confused between the terms grip and traction.

[Abarth]

AFAIK, they need to run with a lot of rear wing anyway, even in the dry, to mitigate the bad traction. So, with rain, they may have had a good car in high speed corners, compared to the others.
I think the rain did not exacerbate but mitigate the car's issues.

[raymondu999]

When people talk of traction around here it generally (note: generally) means how quick you can go full throttle from the apex onwards.

Thanks. Sometimes I get confused between the terms grip and traction.

I think generally (unless you're in the tyre subforum) if you say grip you're talking about lateral friction - the one that defines how much speed you can carry through. Then traction around here is generally the longitudinal aspect on corner exits.

[omar2726]

I think generally (unless you're in the tyre subforum) if you say grip you're talking about lateral friction - the one that defines how much speed you can carry through. Then traction around here is generally the longitudinal aspect on corner exits.

Ah. Thank you again! Anyway, in my post above, is my understanding regarding the car's problems correct? Thank you very much!

[Gilles 27]

I understand your anger, but is it really the case? The "flop" allowed a certain pilot to stay on top on Malaysia. The only quicker was Perez on dry track.
Stay calm, Scuderia knows what to do. Much more than me and you for sure.

Btw, it wasn't the "flop" that allowed that certain pilot to stay on top in Malaysia, it was the other way around. It was "That extraordinary certain pilot" who put the flop on top in Malaysia.

Though the car is not clearly a flop. It still has a lot of potential and I hope they can extract all of it.

I hope it too, because im tired to hear Ferrari can't build winning cars since Brawn, Byrne and ....Schumacher has gone. Even they won 2007 & 2008 the championship...

[Crucial_Xtreme]

I think generally (unless you're in the tyre subforum) if you say grip you're talking about lateral friction - the one that defines how much speed you can carry through. Then traction around here is generally the longitudinal aspect on corner exits.

Ah. Thank you again! Anyway, in my post above, is my understanding regarding the car's problems correct? Thank you very much!

Yes it would seem(it does) that the F2012's problems all stem from aerodynamic deficiency which has lead to the team altering other parts of the car; Front wing(low top speed) and setup(perceived suspension issues) in order to allow the car to be as competitive as they can currently make it.
If they can get the exhaust & other aero issues sorted, they may have a pretty decent car.

[munudeges]

"Everything counts" is a dangerous mindset, IMO. It's one that I had in college doing the FSAE thing.. but often can lead to just chasing every bit if minutiae that comes into your head.

One or two of us might argue that that is exactly what Ferrari have been doing.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

AutoSprint confirms there are no plans for Ferrari to switch to pushrod front suspension. As they've said in the past, they claim the chassis isn't rigid enough & say the push rod would fix it, but no plans to change it.

[bhall]

The chassis isn't rigid enough, and a push-rod front suspension would fix it, but they're not going to fix it?

As it's my native tongue, I thought I understood English pretty well. However, that doesn't make any sense at all.

[hardingfv32]

As it's my native tongue, I thought I understood English pretty well. However, that doesn't make any sense at all.

But they made the chassis stiffer by adding braces above the engine this season. That is not good enough? Maybe the stiffness issue is really in the rear!

So many possibilities it boggles the mind.

Brian

[elFranZ]

The chassis isn't rigid enough, and a push-rod front suspension would fix it, but they're not going to fix it?

As it's my native tongue, I thought I understood English pretty well. However, that doesn't make any sense at all.

The exact translation is "This F2012 has something special: on reader's left we "mounted" a pushing rod instead of a pulling one. This solution COULD, MAYBE, FIX CHASSIS PROBLEMS AND AERO FLUXES, but it's not yet planned".

Got it? One solution for all the problems! So easy

[amouzouris]

how can a team that has been in F1 so many years...got the chassis stiffness wrong...i think that the press has no info...and that is why they are all speculating..first it was the pull-rods..now they added the chassis stiffness...this is just stupid..why should they misinform people when they are just speculating?