2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Sergej]

This is something that can't change during the season for RB

The soft front suspension + high downforce front wing with high degree of flex is a great combination for McLaren. Even if RB manage to come up with their own wing with the new 2024 guidance for flexibility from the FIA, it won't be a package optimized around it like McLaren have.

Given at the moment RB achieve their excellent aero balance without a trick wing, I'm imagining incorporation of this new tool would free up some design choices in the floor to extract more raw performance

I think with this development path, there is a lot of performance that RB can unlock in the car for 2025. For this season, the high speed performance is still there we know that, and a Flexi front wing will bring RB closer in low speed whilst maintaining efficiency edge even if it doesn't help the curbing issue

on paper it seems very beautiful, but can they afford such a revolution of the car after the big changes they did from RB19 to RB20, with the budget cap and all ATR limitations ? let's not forget that with this "new" car they should have a clear path to follow in development, it's debatable they would move resources from this to explore a redesign in how suspension, front wing and floor work together, seems too much of work before another complete revolution in 2026

also remember that McLaren threw in the bin half season in 2023 and almost a quarter of season this year to come up with this concept, not sure Red Bull can do the same while fighting for championships.

[AR3-GP]

I don't think they can afford such a fundamental change of approach. It is very risky. The best they can get is going to be some kind of hybrid car next season. To redesign the floor around a different working window based on a front wing and different ride heights would set them 2 steps back before they can go forward again. The only way you can get away with that is with extra windtunnel time, which they do not have.

[Paa]

They have a good base concept of running high from 2022, no?
Probably they went into the direction of running lower + having stiff suspension from 2023 onwards to increase traction and low speed performance. And then they faced with the bump&kerb issue.
In theory they can go back to the 2022 base, finetune it + add flexi wing for low speed.

The Imola test with the 2022 car might have been jus for this reason. To compare these two ways as this is about the time to decide on the 2025 concept.

[chrisc90]

They have a good base concept of running high from 2022, no?
Probably they went into the direction of running lower + having stiff suspension from 2023 onwards to increase traction and low speed performance. And then they faced with the bump&kerb issue.
In theory they can go back to the 2022 base, finetune it + add flexi wing for low speed.

The Imola test with the 2022 car might have been jus for this reason. To compare these two ways as this is about the time to decide on the 2025 concept.

Or there was a suspension arm change at the front to try and sort the kerb riding out.

[Sergej]

They (Marko and Max above all) seem quite confident to be able to solve the kerb problem in next year car without changing the main concept of the car, only by doing this they would be able to unlock a lot of lap time; I think most of the effort will be dedicated to this, then it's true that this problem was supposed to be an area of work and improvement from the RB19 but here we go.

[Paa]

They (Marko and Max above all) seem quite confident to be able to solve the kerb problem in next year car without changing the main concept of the car, only by doing this they would be able to unlock a lot of lap time; I think most of the effort will be dedicated to this, then it's true that this problem was supposed to be an area of work and improvement from the RB19 but here we go.

I think they were also pretty confident at end of 2023, that this issue would be solved by 2024.

[AR3-GP]

They (Marko and Max above all) seem quite confident to be able to solve the kerb problem in next year car without changing the main concept of the car, only by doing this they would be able to unlock a lot of lap time; I think most of the effort will be dedicated to this, then it's true that this problem was supposed to be an area of work and improvement from the RB19 but here we go.

I think they were also pretty confident at end of 2023, that this issue would be solved by 2024.

They said at the start that low speed cornering is what would be most improved. Kerb riding, not so much. However, based on what was said now, the current kerb riding problem is worse in the real world than it is in the simulations.

According to simulations, it wasn't a bad car in Monaco

[Paa]

They (Marko and Max above all) seem quite confident to be able to solve the kerb problem in next year car without changing the main concept of the car, only by doing this they would be able to unlock a lot of lap time; I think most of the effort will be dedicated to this, then it's true that this problem was supposed to be an area of work and improvement from the RB19 but here we go.

I think they were also pretty confident at end of 2023, that this issue would be solved by 2024.

They said at the start that low speed cornering is what would be most improved. Kerb riding, not so much. However, based on what was said now, the current kerb riding problem is worse in the real world than it is in the simulations.

According to simulations, it wasn't a bad car in Monaco

Nah, that was early 2024, when the car was ready.
At the end of 2023 (mostly after Singapore) they were saying that they knew what the problem was, it could not be solved with that car, but working on it to make it better for next year.

Pretty much exactly what they were saying now, hence my original point, that it can not be taken granted.

[organic]

I think their solution to low speed performance ended up giving up any gains in curbing performance. But the extent to which the curbing performance has dropped is far more than they expected with the rb20. So the tradeoff that is on the car isn't what was expected.

I think they expected for the curb riding to be similar to the rb19 which wasn't amazing but not terrible

[organic]

I don't think they can afford such a fundamental change of approach. It is very risky. The best they can get is going to be some kind of hybrid car next season. To redesign the floor around a different working window based on a front wing and different ride heights would set them 2 steps back before they can go forward again. The only way you can get away with that is with extra windtunnel time, which they do not have.

May be the only choice if they want to stay competitive through 2025. It's plain to see that mclaren's approach has had a far steeper development curve for the past 12 months and they haven't asymptoted as much as rb.

[AR3-GP]

Austria:













There's no chance vs Mclaren. They will be able to carry so much more speed through the corners because they can make the corners wider by using all of the curbs aggressively.

[KimiRai]

Spanish sources say Sainz could be waiting not to sign anything in a hurry because Red Bull is becoming a bit fed up with Perez.

Maybe biased sources, but the fact Sainz has contradicted most rumours who said he would announce by the Spanish GP suggests a new development

[organic]

Austria:

https://i.postimg.cc/sDcDfWT0/Image-001.png

https://i.postimg.cc/bvKqV9vd/Image-002.png

https://i.postimg.cc/CxrhkgTG/Image-003.png

https://i.postimg.cc/QddNFMPN/Image-004.png

https://i.postimg.cc/0N68CBPL/Image-005.png

https://i.postimg.cc/9MZC6w4b/Image-006.png

There's no chance vs Mclaren. They will be able to carry so much more speed through the corners because they can make the corners wider by using all of the curbs aggressively.

Thanks for the information. Yeah Austria is over

[venkyhere]

I think their solution to low speed performance ended up giving up any gains in curbing performance. But the extent to which the curbing performance has dropped is far more than they expected with the rb20. So the tradeoff that is on the car isn't what was expected.

I think they expected for the curb riding to be similar to the rb19 which wasn't amazing but not terrible

Of course it's a given that they design the car with tradeoffs (ultimately F1 is an engg design/manufacturing contest, with a plethora of opposing constraints).

But I have a feeling that the initial RB20 was giving up on kerbs, only as far as they expected it to, in exchange for low speed gains. Clue : the ugly kerb in the middle of T22-23-24 in Jeddah => the RB20 was fine through there, in fact, it was one of the strongest cars through the braking for 22, rotation, straightening to go over the 23 kerb, then powering out through 24.

I think the Japan update could be the one that has made it worse. Slowly but surely, what Alisson said about the RB20's Japan upgrade "it's a downgrade" that many of us (including me) pooh-poohed as 'just fighting talk' might actually turn out to be true. I wouldn't be surprised if after Austria (where a podium for VER would be a mega achievement) the media around F1 revisits Alisson's statement and builds a narrative "Newey gone, car gone".

[bluechris]

Spanish sources say Sainz could be waiting not to sign anything in a hurry because Red Bull is becoming a bit fed up with Perez.

Maybe biased sources, but the fact Sainz has contradicted most rumours who said he would announce by the Spanish GP suggests a new development

Nahh i don't think it will happen. Sainz shows constantly signs in all his carrier of doing things on his own and that is not tolerable in RB.