Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[myurr]

We've seen McLaren run the EBD once and with only a week break they wouldn't have even had time to make new parts for this race based on that data let alone design and test them, so we're not going to see anything from them for at least another race or two.

There's still something fishy going on. Other teams have managed to bolt this on to a car and get a modest improvement in lap time but the McLaren seems to be extremely sensitive to what's been done to it. They've got a long three weeks after this weekend because they've got to do what Red Bull and now Ferrari have done - bolt parts on to the car and have them work with no testing.

Mercedes haven't improved, Williams made steps forward without the EBD and without the EBD providing anything extra yet, and Force India have just bolted theirs on and don't seem to be doing so well. Who else is there? I've probably missed a team or two.

Let's not forget that Red Bull have been playing with the EBD the whole year. The only time they've bolted a new part on this year that wasn't an evolution of their own design was the f-duct and they took several races to really make that work.

Ditto with Ferrari, they've copied the f-duct which took them a long while and they've copied the EBD which took a couple of races and an arguably illegal (certainly in the spirit of the regs) promo day. Even then we should remember that Ferrari have gone for a simpler design than McLaren and Red Bull that doesn't have the slit to blow into the diffuser itself.

Couple that more difficult design with the vastly more complex diffuser that McLaren have then it's not so surprising it's taking a couple of races to perfect. Last race they ran it and have a good base line, hopefully the data from then and this race will give them what they need to take a good step forward in Spa (although isn't the factory shut for a couple of weeks? Or is that later in the year?).

[internetf1fan]

Really dissapointed that McLaren decided to ditch it's main strentgh to go chasing after aero. McLaren could guarantee to be competitive in at least half of the tracks and be average at others. And now they're average at all the tracks. ;_;

[outer_bongolia]

I wonder if either of the drivers could ditch EBD or is it too late? This is looking like they are seriously moving more and more backwards. If EBD gave McL any advantage, they would at least be able to quantify it if they ran two different cars.

At this point they've got nothing to lose. They are at the same level as Merc and (hopefully) Renault and 1 second off Ferrari and RBR. They would not lose this position if they went back to non-EBD.

I am not going to deny that I have been a McL fan since the Senna days (most probably because of the Senna days). The current situation definitely makes me terribly worried.

[Pierce89]

We've seen McLaren run the EBD once and with only a week break they wouldn't have even had time to make new parts for this race based on that data let alone design and test them, so we're not going to see anything from them for at least another race or two.

There's still something fishy going on. Other teams have managed to bolt this on to a car and get a modest improvement in lap time but the McLaren seems to be extremely sensitive to what's been done to it. They've got a long three weeks after this weekend because they've got to do what Red Bull and now Ferrari have done - bolt parts on to the car and have them work with no testing.

Mercedes haven't improved, Williams made steps forward without the EBD and without the EBD providing anything extra yet, and Force India have just bolted theirs on and don't seem to be doing so well. Who else is there? I've probably missed a team or two.

Let's not forget that Red Bull have been playing with the EBD the whole year. The only time they've bolted a new part on this year that wasn't an evolution of their own design was the f-duct and they took several races to really make that work.

Ditto with Ferrari, they've copied the f-duct which took them a long while and they've copied the EBD which took a couple of races and an arguably illegal (certainly in the spirit of the regs) promo day. Even then we should remember that Ferrari have gone for a simpler design than McLaren and Red Bull that doesn't have the slit to blow into the diffuser itself.

Couple that more difficult design with the vastly more complex diffuser that McLaren have then it's not so surprising it's taking a couple of races to perfect. Last race they ran it and have a good base line, hopefully the data from then and this race will give them what they need to take a good step forward in Spa (although isn't the factory shut for a couple of weeks? Or is that later in the year?).

I haven't seen any proof that Macca are blowing into the diffuser like red bull.
BTW does any one else have a problem with seeing the bottom line when typing a post. I can't see what I'm typing.

[Pierce89]

I reckon the McLaren would be faster if they stuck to their old car and their own design philosophy. I remember Andy saying that the car had much unlocked potential in Autosport forums. And now they suddenly decide to change to EBD? Why not unlock the potential of the old car first? The race pace of the old car was splendid and allowed regular high scoring points. With the new car it seems Hamilton and Button will be struggling to get 4th and 5th. think about it, how many podiums has the old car given us?

Both drivers have said they feel a beneft from the EBD, and that the car is faster with it than without it. The EBD isn't slowng the car down. Macca is just fallng behind in develment, though I'd imagne its temporary.

[myurr]

I haven't seen any proof that Macca are blowing into the diffuser like red bull.

It's not the exact same mechanism, they're blowing a different region of the diffuser. Instead of the Red Bull style central opening they've got two slits on the outer edges of the diffuser. Same concept different implementation.

Edit: should add that pics were earlier in this thread.

[raymondu999]

That McLaren still looks like it has an arse as wide as an ox

[forty-two]

I've not seen this new rear end of the MP4-25 before. This massive exit hole is somewhat reminiscent of the RB6?

Can anyone work out what the pipes (circular things at least) are in the inboard opening are?

[forty-two]

The rear wing blowing slot looks more noticable in this shot that I've seen it before. Could this be to cope with the higher angle of attack of the rear wing at this circuit?

EDIT: It looks more prominent when viewed in high res, it doesn't particularly on here though!

[ESPImperium]

I've not seen this new rear end of the MP4-25 before. This massive exit hole is somewhat reminiscent of the RB6?

Can anyone work out what the pipes (circular things at least) are in the inboard opening are?

Mountings for the 3rd dammper, the heave spring maybes??? They arnt anything to do with exausts or anything, i think.

Im noticing that more and more teams are using this Red Bull style cooling as it dosnt rally carry much of a penalty for for drag.

[forty-two]

Mountings for the 3rd dammper, the heave spring maybes??? They arnt anything to do with exausts or anything, i think.

I think you're probably right there.

Im noticing that more and more teams are using this Red Bull style cooling as it dosnt rally carry much of a penalty for for drag.

I'm not so sure about that. Surely there will be a bit of turbulence created behind such a structure as the air from inside the engine cover will be travelling slightly slower than that travelling around it?

PS well done getting a name check on two race weekends on the trot!

[mx_tifoso]

Mountings for the 3rd dammper, the heave spring maybes??? They arnt anything to do with exausts or anything, i think.

I think you're probably right there.
...

...

[zgred]

Here, without load.

[forty-two]

Mountings for the 3rd dammper, the heave spring maybes??? They arnt anything to do with exausts or anything, i think.

I think you're probably right there.
...

...

Wow, beatiful picture! Kind of looks organic doesn't it?

Thanks for that, settles that once and for all!

EDIT: Thanks also zgred, gives another angle ALSO settling it!

[forty-two]

Mountings for the 3rd dammper, the heave spring maybes??? They arnt anything to do with exausts or anything, i think.

I think you're probably right there.
...

...

Sorry for being WAY off topic here (although perhaps timely as we're approaching the same circuit where the accident happened!).

How on earth could that heave spring get loose from Barrichello's car without his suspension collapsing?