Mercedes W13

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
ajprice
ajprice
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Mercedes floor surface


Henri
Henri
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Mercedes front wing looks more innovative.. central area allows more air to flow to the floor stronger flooor

HungarianRacer
HungarianRacer
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Re: Mercedes W13

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siskue2005 wrote:
19 Feb 2022, 11:17
ajprice wrote:
19 Feb 2022, 11:04
The B Sport video explains the mirror support strakes, looks like they're legal there.
Yes, it looks like the mirror support and wavy floor is within rules and easy to copy according to ex F1 aerodynamics
Question is, how useful will that be for other teams? For this Merc, it seems to work well in concert with the relatively tall, concave, outward-cambered sidepod wall, a random, relatively shallow turning vane around that area wouldn't be that useful for teams with completely different sidepod shapes I'd imagine...
Last edited by HungarianRacer on 19 Feb 2022, 12:36, edited 1 time in total.

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siskue2005
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Re: Mercedes W13

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HungarianRacer wrote:
19 Feb 2022, 12:30
siskue2005 wrote:
19 Feb 2022, 11:17
ajprice wrote:
19 Feb 2022, 11:04
The B Sport video explains the mirror support strakes, looks like they're legal there.
Yes, it looks like the mirror support and wavy floor is within rules and easy to copy according to ex F1 aerodynamics
Question is, how useful will that be for other teams? For this Merc, it seems to work well in concert with the relatively tall, concave, outward-cambered sidepod wall, a random, realtively shallow turning vane around that area wouldn't be that useful for teams with completely different sidepod shapes I'd imagine...
Yes true, i could see Aston Martin using it who have a similar side pod area

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Stu
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Re: Mercedes W13

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ajprice wrote:
19 Feb 2022, 11:59
Mercedes floor surface

I’m not sure that we are seeing the final product here, there looks to be something draped over the floor in front of the pressure measuring tubes.
It could be the start of ‘the phoney war’ for 2022; getting other teams to waste their (restricted) CFD runs on investigation of how it works.
Depending on how you read the rules around double curvature in the floor, there is the potential for it not to be legal. There is no floor edge wing either, and that has the potential to be very powerful.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

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Shakeman
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Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 13:31
Location: UK

Re: Mercedes W13

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atanatizante wrote:
18 Feb 2022, 23:31
http://postimg.cc/rKd3zc5G

This W13 picture somehow resembles with Mercedes AMG Project-One Hypercar :

http://postimg.cc/JDfJqbdz
Is this a serious post?

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AeroDynamic
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Re: Mercedes W13

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some more onboard footage, some is the same as before but there is a bit more of it. also some new angle from the nose :)

DRS Open and Shut 8)

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Last edited by AeroDynamic on 19 Feb 2022, 13:10, edited 3 times in total.

f1jcw
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Henri wrote:
19 Feb 2022, 12:24

Mercedes front wing looks more innovative.. central area allows more air to flow to the floor stronger flooor
Wild speculation

The merc’s front wings looks most downforce laden which would also say more rear downforce to balance it.
Obviously none of the wings might be real.

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Shakeman
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Stu wrote:
19 Feb 2022, 12:43

I’m not sure that we are seeing the final product here, there looks to be something draped over the floor in front of the pressure measuring tubes.
It could be the start of ‘the phoney war’ for 2022; getting other teams to waste their (restricted) CFD runs on investigation of how it works.
Depending on how you read the rules around double curvature in the floor, there is the potential for it not to be legal. There is no floor edge wing either, and that has the potential to be very powerful.
Warning bells went off for me the moment the picture of that floor hit Twitter. It's all a bit too convenient to see such amazingly clear images of sensitive aero surfaces from a closed filming day.

Getting full value out of the under floor is obviously going to mean the upper and side of floor will be an area of intense development and I can't believe Merc would give so much away so early. Merc has turned up to testing with a car that never raced in the past and this could be a similar instance about getting on track data correlation to a previous step in development. And if it sponged up a few CFD runs of competitors in the process so much the better.

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Joined: 29 Nov 2016, 18:07

Re: Mercedes W13

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dans79 wrote:
19 Feb 2022, 01:04
ENGINE TUNER wrote:
19 Feb 2022, 00:56
timoth wrote:
18 Feb 2022, 20:03
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 9tPtR.html

The part about PU positioning (Merc vs Ferrari) is very interesting. Merc has pushed PU as backward as possible, while Ferrari has pushed PU as forward as possible. There were rumors that with the understeer-y nature of new cars, RedBull was trying to put PU forward and immediately behind the cockpit. We haven't seen RedBull yet, but Ferrari clearly has done this.
It seems that in terms of weight distribution and Center of Gravity, this PU placement has helped Ferrari, but Merc on the other hand has much slimmer sidepods thanks to pushing PU backward and using more centerline cooling.

I wonder which solution will be more effective with the new cars?!!
By regulation the fuel tank must be behind the driver and inside the safety cell, impossible the put the PU "immediately behind cockpit "

I doubt any of them have a PU in a much different place than the others.
I was just getting ready to point that out myself.
Shape of the fuel tank could play a role, longer skinnier, or shorter fatter. Volume of the battery pack will also play a role since it is forced to be placed inside the safety cell by the regulations, almost forcing it to be placed under the fuel cell. Ultimate Volume of the fuel cell itself, with Merc tending to be one of the most efficient cars on the grid by way of PU efficiency (we used to see them dominating races while using less than 90kg of fuel back in 2014 and 2015 when FOM put out the total fuel used graphic) and also by way of lower drag, and this less total time down the straight.

But also, Canada and Singapore are back on the schedule and are 2 of the highest fuel consumption races over the season, so they must design a tank large enough to fuel for the race with highest total fuel usage.

And with their split turbo, front compressor design the engine must have some space between the rear of the safety/fuel cell and the front of the ICE.

ENGINE TUNER
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Re: Mercedes W13

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zibby43 wrote:
19 Feb 2022, 05:12
JordanMugen wrote:
19 Feb 2022, 02:46
e30ernest wrote:
18 Feb 2022, 11:37
The mirror has a nice vane running behind it over the sidepod.
Yes, that is a nice feature. I guess that's some kind of loophole in the wording. I think those two loopholes (this winglet and the AM/Ferrari double bib on the tea-tray) are the kinds of things that can be quickly and easily copied by everyone.

west52keep64 wrote:
18 Feb 2022, 11:42
Incredibly tight packaging
I wouldn't go that far, the Mercedes' famously large plenum is not even sticking out unlike on the McLaren. I think it's more of a mild packaging like say the 2019 Force India.
That’s merely one facet of the packaging.

I’d argue that in virtually every other respect, this is Merc’s most incredible packaging job ever.

The floor real estate is something to behold.
Especially since the regulation floor is smaller now than at any time since 2016.

DarthPlagueisTheVise
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Re: Mercedes W13

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I am honestly puzzled as to why merc are releasing so much footage of the new car. They could have just done the launch with the show car and then do a shakedown like RB
Technical Noob

ENGINE TUNER
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Re: Mercedes W13

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e30ernest wrote:
19 Feb 2022, 08:53
Those front upper wishbones look absolutely fat. They are probably maximizing the amount of fairing they can use there. From the T-cam view, the upper wishbones almost look like a 2-pc wing.
The wheels/tires are bigger and heavier than ever, thus the suspension arms must be beefed up to sustain the increased loading.

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markc
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Re: Mercedes W13

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Because I'd imagine getting to grips with the new regs with as close to racing a spec is more important that worrying about copying, plus copying takes time to get right and then implement, so get ahead with what you have, worry about others later!

Neuron
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Re: Mercedes W13

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DarthPlagueisTheVise wrote:
19 Feb 2022, 13:35
I am honestly puzzled as to why merc are releasing so much footage of the new car. They could have just done the launch with the show car and then do a shakedown like RB
Two options:

1. They are veeeery confident
2. Final car will be totally different