Flexible wings controversy 2010

[xpensive]

For the sake of argument wesley, how would this heating be performed and what is the composite matrix which responds to it?

Well, by using electrical wires you can easily heat the object, as you know electricity comes with heat, so using the right voltage can generate the wing to loose rigity.

Well, now i am thinking about it, such an idea is pretty much bull, The mechanics would get shocks from it, though i think it has an possibility, but dont ask me how:p

Brothers, sisters, members of F1T, take lesson from comrade wesley, when he's suggesting he might have been wrong!

[wesley123]

For the sake of argument wesley, how would this heating be performed and what is the composite matrix which responds to it?

Well, by using electrical wires you can easily heat the object, as you know electricity comes with heat, so using the right voltage can generate the wing to loose rigity.

Well, now i am thinking about it, such an idea is pretty much bull, The mechanics would get shocks from it, though i think it has an possibility, but dont ask me how:p

Brothers, sisters, members of F1T, take lesson from comrade heavy where he's suggesting he might have been wrong!

I am not wrong, I am just not right

No but seriously, I am 18 years old, have never studied anything like this, on school I wasnt really following the science classes and was rather throwing paper planes lol. Everything i know about these things are actually just learned here, and by this I try to understand things, learn new things, Make my own conclusions of what is possible or not, and with that it can happen that I am not right(saying that i'm wrong just sounds that negative), I mean, how many possibilities are there to let the wing flex? sure mine is possible, but it isnt that logical. I though about it and think it was plausible, but later when i think it over again it wasnt that plauzible. Sure it is possible to do, but not very likely and not efficient. Afterall I am young, still willing to learn, and actually i do not mind making mistakes, as I learn much more from mistakes then when I am correct the first time.

[xpensive]

Hey comrade wesley, everything is alright, we are all here to learn, almost all anyway, keep the spirit up!

[747heavy]

@ wesley
=D>
Good attitude to have - try to keep it for as long as possible.
As my old prof. used to say " Remain critical/sceptical (open minded) - maybe tomorrow somebody wakes up and proves the opposite."

[mariano.torre.gomez]

I agree taht several pics shows RB´s front wing "deep" down but I dont see it "flexed"
and Horner is not much concerned about to proven high flexibility
I firmily believe the get this solution from another "engineering"

[flynfrog]

[quote="xpensive"

For the sake of argument wesley, how would this heating be performed and what is the composite matrix which responds to it?

Well, by using electrical wires you can easily heat the object, as you know electricity comes with heat, so using the right voltage can generate the wing to loose rigity.

Well, now i am thinking about it, such an idea is pretty much bull, The mechanics would get shocks from it, though i think it has an possibility, but dont ask me how:p

Brothers, sisters, members of F1T, take lesson from comrade heavy where he's suggesting he might have been wrong!

I am not wrong, I am just not right

No but seriously, I am 18 years old, have never studied anything like this, on school I wasnt really following the science classes and was rather throwing paper planes lol. Everything i know about these things are actually just learned here, and by this I try to understand things, learn new things, Make my own conclusions of what is possible or not, and with that it can happen that I am not right(saying that i'm wrong just sounds that negative), I mean, how many possibilities are there to let the wing flex? sure mine is possible, but it isnt that logical. I though about it and think it was plausible, but later when i think it over again it wasnt that plauzible. Sure it is possible to do, but not very likely and not efficient. Afterall I am young, still willing to learn, and actually i do not mind making mistakes, as I learn much more from mistakes then when I am correct the first time.[/quote]you are not that far off though

they are working on self healing composites that use wires to heat the resin back up and re cure repairing a damaged matrix

[mick1980]

Is it just me or is the Sauber's wing flexing as well now.



Cheers guys
Mick

[snowy]

No, it's not just you. I also thought their end-plates were closer to the ground, as close as the Ferrari's. It would explain the rather dramatic improved performance they've been experiencing.

[mick1980]

No, it's not just you. I also thought their end-plates were closer to the ground, as close as the Ferrari's. It would explain the rather dramatic improved performance they've been experiencing.

I thought I was seeing things when I saw Pedro in Q3!

[wesley123]

IMO i think the wings shape is misleading you.

[thestig84]

Quite interesting peice from james allen here http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/08/w ... lls-wings/

What do you guys make of that?

[xpensive]

This, from James Allen, I find mighty interesting, eh marcush?

But this also matters because the linear flexing might only be a part of what the Red Bull nose is doing. There is a theory among engineers, based on looking at the whole front wing when its loaded up, that there is some kind of spring loaded device in the crash structure to deflect the whole wing down, over and above what the wing tips do.

Interesting, as I cannot see the wing bend according to the deflection claimed?

[mariano.torre.gomez]

Hi
I am a newie in the here but with some years watching after F1
On the above pics I would guess that Sauber front wings 10 cm or more above the ground, when you see pics about RB it looks more close to 5 cm.
Interesting is that if you look at the car´s center line that height is the same along the whole straight portion of the wing in the RB´s
Interesting too is to remember that a beam under load supported by two pillar will flex as an “U” with the edges coming down but with the center going up
I some slow motion pics in Hungary was clear to me that Ferrari and RB nose( nose and wings ) was vibrating more than McLaren´s but was vibrating as a whole piece,
That suggested to me that the whole nose is more flexible that others.
It is clear that their are getting extra down force ,at low speeds and that could by the results of several actions whether legal or illegal
Possible reasons
a) Flexible wings
b) Flexible nose
c) Adjustable ride high
d) Floor design
Did you noticed that when RB stop at pits before to move the car into de garage they lift the car up, in the same way when they are going to change tires? Why? The are the only ones doing that as far I have seen.
Adjustable ride high could be done if push rod anchorage on the chassis is not a fix point is adjustable point (mechanical or hydraulic) which is not bad because it helps to change camber during curving which help to “ideal patch”
It would be very interesting if some body can recover a pic from Silverstone Friday practice, when Vettel´s front wing felt down .I remember that just on the straight The whole nose felt down but was not loose, was like a hinge or so. And the wing was close to the asphalt but was not deteriorating in fact nothing visible was broken , eventually the fixture point.
DO you remember Webber in satisfaction when they took his wing, why they took? What was broken the wing it self? Or the “special fixture”.

[scarbs]

If you look at the Red Bull from the onboard shots, you can see that cascades\endplate appear to be pointing downward (anhedral), as though the flexing is hinged about the point where the wing meets the FIA neutral DWG7 centre section.

I dont subscribe to the JAF1 flexing nose cone theory, you cant see any gap appear from the trackside photos aroudn the nose cone nor does the nose coen appear to move from the on board shots. indeed the track side shots show the wing bowed downwards (like the Sauber picture posted a few posts before this), not the centre section running suspiciously low.

Don't think Red Bull and Ferrari are the only ones doing this, its just theirs are the most visibly flexing.

[xpensive]

As I've said before you can do a lot of funny things with fiber technology creating anisotropic materials.

During my university days, one of them was the xample of the JAS-fighter having its wings bent downwards at the bottom of a dive, another one when we were tought to laminate a 37 degree cantilever rod, xposed to an equal bending moment as well as torque, beholding the thing bending upwards.