2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

[diffuser]

I think that all the McLaren issues could be tied back to a switch in PUs..


When you look back to where they were in winter testing 2015 and the time they lost there and through most of the season...everything falls in line.

You could talk about the issues in 2014 but they cleaned house after that. So what the point? Cleaning house is an acknowledgement that they needed to get better.

This year both houses have gotten themselves in order. Neither the PU or the chassis were in order at the beginning of the season. They seem to be now. The car as a whole is Progressing well.

That being said, next year is the year of reckoning. They need to be on the podium regularly.

[Goran2812]

they sucked with the merc v8 so... the switch only made it worse for them...

[proteus]

they sucked with the merc v8 so... the switch only made it worse for them...

I dont have a clue how to take youre comment seriously.

[Jef Patat]

Well, there must be a reason he's on the forum for 6 years and has zero rep

[les arcs]

they sucked with the merc v8 so... the switch only made it worse for them...

I dont have a clue how to take youre comment seriously.

I feel you are right, the last couple of seasons with the Merc they were pretty much nowhere, relative to their previous competitiveness, whether or not you put that down to the car or drivers or a combination of both is up to you, but whatever they seriously underachieved with the Merc engine before going to Honda

[Jolle]

they sucked with the merc v8 so... the switch only made it worse for them...

I dont have a clue how to take youre comment seriously.

I feel you are right, the last couple of seasons with the Merc they were pretty much nowhere, relative to their previous competitiveness, whether or not you put that down to the car or drivers or a combination of both is up to you, but whatever they seriously underachieved with the Merc engine before going to Honda

Well, they had a few (in hindsight) bad decisions. After a decent but unreliable 2012 they thought they could emulate 1988 with a completely new design to make the most of the last year of those current regs, while other teams opted to further develop their 2012 cars and put development on the 2014 season. So they lost 2013, then were on the back foot for 2014 and opted for a complete new design again for 2015 with Honda, being again a full year behind in refinement (because if the restrictions something you can't force to catch up like the good old days). This coincided with the additional investment of the partners when Daimler sold their shares back. So they made an extra 0,5 billion investment in the company, Ron Dennis took back control and so far, no return of investment. You can stretch it only so much until the other investors start to ask questions

[bill shoe]

I'm probably more old school than most people here. I've been following F1 since Lauda stormed to the championship for McLaren in 84.

Ron Dennis has weathered severe criticism in recent years from many people for not being Formula 1 Smart. Mosley in particular called him "not the sharpest tool in the shed". But Ron had a perfectionist mindset and high standards, and for decades he was able to successfully motivate McLaren to this philosophy and to their resulting World Championships. He was an immensely successful leader. He was a doer while the likes of Mosley were merely complainers.

Ron Dennis is done now, having overseen Alonso claw his way to 10th place in Brazil 2016, good for one more point to throw on McLaren's pile. Dennis is not the right person to build McLaren into the mega-technical organization needed to challenge Mercedes or Red Bull. I don't know that McLaren will ever get there, or ever thrive again. But huge, huge, multi-decade respect to Dennis. The most successful tool in the shed, and well done.

[ringo]

Mclaren's troubles are linked to the gamble to go with honda engines. The poor performance has put a lot of unwanted stress on an already struggling team.
When you compare them to Force India, you can see where FI has improved steadily while playing it safe and sticking to the evil they know. Ron should have kep the mercedes unit for another year and capture half decent results before switching to the very peculiar Honda.
Now they are in a very uncomfortable place. Honda MUST perform in 2017. I don't think Mclaren can take another mediocre year.
The chassis is an enigma, it's really hard to tell if it's crap or respectable, but Mclaren must get it right for 2017 as well.

[les arcs]

Mclaren's troubles are linked to the gamble to go with honda engines. The poor performance has put a lot of unwanted stress on an already struggling team.
When you compare them to Force India, you can see where FI has improved steadily while playing it safe and sticking to the evil they know. Ron should have kep the mercedes unit for another year and capture half decent results before switching to the very peculiar Honda.
Now they are in a very uncomfortable place. Honda MUST perform in 2017. I don't think Mclaren can take another mediocre year.
The chassis is an enigma, it's really hard to tell if it's crap or respectable, but Mclaren must get it right for 2017 as well.

I don't think that they had a choice with respect to the engines. Mercedes cut them loose, when Mclaren announced that they were going to do their own road car that was effectively the end of the deal with Mercedes. The choice was not theirs, they had to find a works option. There doesn't seem to be too many manufactureres on the horizon willing to stump up what is required. I hope that Honda continue as I can't see how they can survive without them.

What can you say about the chassis? Since the end of 2012 they haven't really been close to winning anything, even with the Merc.

[Goran2812]

they sucked with the merc v8 so... the switch only made it worse for them...

I dont have a clue how to take youre comment seriously.

Why not? McLaren have had a very very good and lucrative spell with Mercedes engines, from V10, to V8, and by the end of their partnership they were really bad for some reason and practically nowhere pace wise... All other teams with merc engines beat them. That tells me they were a mess and made many bad decisions, among others, chassis wise, and they had lots of problems... To think that they were competitive by the end of the mercedes engine usage and partnership would be a lie...

Well, there must be a reason he's on the forum for 6 years and has zero rep

Yeah, sorry for not posting much and writing what people want to read... Being realistic (atleast most of the time) is obviously not a thing for this forum. You get bashed for it, and people like you judge and make silly comments like this. What is it that you think you see when people don't have any rep? Is that all that matters around here? Give me a break...
Maybe I should make a new account and start writing fanboy and unrealistic posts to get positive rep, would that be ok with you? Yeah, I tought so...

Back to the team...

I believe that Ron should go. He's been in charge for a long time, and maybe change will be good for them. I kinda think that everyone in McLaren are under a lot of pressure from Ron's side. As if making a good car and being competitive is not enough pressure on it's own.

[Pierce89]

Mclaren's troubles are linked to the gamble to go with honda engines. The poor performance has put a lot of unwanted stress on an already struggling team.
When you compare them to Force India, you can see where FI has improved steadily while playing it safe and sticking to the evil they know. Ron should have kep the mercedes unit for another year and capture half decent results before switching to the very peculiar Honda.
Now they are in a very uncomfortable place. Honda MUST perform in 2017. I don't think Mclaren can take another mediocre year.
The chassis is an enigma, it's really hard to tell if it's crap or respectable, but Mclaren must get it right for 2017 as well.

It really seems clear to me that McLaren and STR both have chassis fairly close to Ferrari level(str optimised for high df while Mclaren optimised for efficiency at a lower df level), but both are saddled with ane engine penalty of something >.5 sec/lap.

[max_speed]

Ongoing Ron dennis Saga , rumors about PP planning for his exit etc is making me bit nervous about next year prospects.
does any insider has info about current environment within mclaren-honda ? any positive info is welcome amid this gloomy state of affairs.

[adrianjordan]

Does anyone have a link to the PP rumours or is it something which has originated within this very thread?

[mclaren111]

I'm probably more old school than most people here. I've been following F1 since Lauda stormed to the championship for McLaren in 84.

Ron Dennis has weathered severe criticism in recent years from many people for not being Formula 1 Smart. Mosley in particular called him "not the sharpest tool in the shed". But Ron had a perfectionist mindset and high standards, and for decades he was able to successfully motivate McLaren to this philosophy and to their resulting World Championships. He was an immensely successful leader. He was a doer while the likes of Mosley were merely complainers.

Ron Dennis is done now, having overseen Alonso claw his way to 10th place in Brazil 2016, good for one more point to throw on McLaren's pile. Dennis is not the right person to build McLaren into the mega-technical organization needed to challenge Mercedes or Red Bull. I don't know that McLaren will ever get there, or ever thrive again. But huge, huge, multi-decade respect to Dennis. The most successful tool in the shed, and well done.

Join the club !! I have been watching since a teenager following Jody Scheckter as a fellow South African. Became a McLaren fan in 1988 with Senna arrival and will die a McLaren fan.

Dennis's only problem is his absolute refusal to drop his prices on sponsorship

[mrluke]

Mclaren's troubles are linked to the gamble to go with honda engines. The poor performance has put a lot of unwanted stress on an already struggling team.
When you compare them to Force India, you can see where FI has improved steadily while playing it safe and sticking to the evil they know. Ron should have kep the mercedes unit for another year and capture half decent results before switching to the very peculiar Honda.
Now they are in a very uncomfortable place. Honda MUST perform in 2017. I don't think Mclaren can take another mediocre year.
The chassis is an enigma, it's really hard to tell if it's crap or respectable, but Mclaren must get it right for 2017 as well.

It really seems clear to me that McLaren and STR both have chassis fairly close to Ferrari level(str optimised for high df while Mclaren optimised for efficiency at a lower df level), but both are saddled with ane engine penalty of something >.5 sec/lap.

I think the Mclaren is a much more "peaky" car to setup than the str. The str is able to perform consistently at nearly every grand prix whereas we saw this weekend, one Mclaren in top 10,the other in 17th with the driver saying he doesn't understand why the car doesn't work.