2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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proteus
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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TAG wrote:I've always been a driver fan first but McLaren to me always felt like the team that could out develop anyone over a season. The reason I fell in love with the sport was due to the McLaren (Porsche) TAG effort of the late 80s.

It was really difficult to watch the final few Hamilton years there and 2012 was excruciating. No source I can share at the moment but around the period Ron came back, he did an interview where he stated that he was the one that made the descision to let Hamilton go. He gave the example of examples which was the twittergate saga with Hamilton having shared the performance difference. Ron said that the negotiations with Hamilton had gotten to the point where he needed to show Hamilton that he needed the team more than they needed him. That's why when Hamilton opted for the wing that was clearly slower, McLaren chose not to tell him to work with the wing Button had opted for because it was demonstrably quicker. Fast forward, we know how that ended.

But to think of McLaren from the point of Hamilton's departure to today feels like an exercise in masochism. No wins, the longest stint ever in the team's history without a podium and a season where coming in 6th place is seen as a tremendous step up from the previous year. It's been even worse from a sponsorship standpoint. The title sponsor we were assured was coming never materialized, and TAG Heuer and Hugo Boss have been replaced by Sensodyne Toothpaste.

Try to close your eyes and see Senna with a Sensodyne Toothpaste patch on his overalls instead of TAG and BOSS. It really hurts the brain.
Money is money, no matter what kind of logo is representing it. Sensodyne fits quite well with the sport, especially with their "Rapid relief" slogan. Otherwise it was the time to see who is really loyal to the team and aparently none of the brands which were on for decades were. Segafredo and Hilton are staying if i understand correctly. KPMG is where Boss was, which was replaced by Michael Kors. Sensodyne is on the place where Lucozade was, Chandon is where Johnnie was (worth arround 10 million), NTT came on the rear wing side and CNN on front wing side. NRF is branding and the title sponsor so far is Honda (free engines = arround 20 million, half the drivers salaries = arround 20 milllion and 30 million directly to the team). Mobil is signing itself out, but Castrol/BP is coming (worth arround 28 million) in and TagHeuer is replaced by Richard Mille (10 year contract). Next year they will probably save arround 8-10 millions due to Vandoorne getting the seat.

The only mistake that maybe Ron did as i see it was declining a 50 million deal with Johnnie Walker, but on the other hand their car business is very strong right now and this 50 millions are easy to cover.

The biggest problems the sport has right now (the way i see it) is that a team like Mclaren, which is a top noch team and has a budget of few hundred millions cant get itself to the top due to the rules and regulations that restrict them too much. The turning point is next season and if they fail to get themself into the shape to score podiums (not victories, but more than a handfull of podiums), than they will have a BIG problem and us fans as well. Deeply down i quietly hoped they will make a massive leap this year allready and get to the podium, but i was too optimistic (as being a dedicated fan, half of my sin must be apologised for :P ), but i am quite happy with the overall progress that they have done, being somewhere in higher end of the midfield still behind FI and Williams, but sometimes beating them. Honorable mentions to STR and Hass, but the latter faded away like Sauber did last year troughout the season. Atleast seventh place is secured and they almost tripled the amount of points they have scored since last year.

Only time will tell what is about to happen, but i have a feeling that all that money spending they did was not in vain. As i did before i quietly hope again they really had putted their minds into the process of how to resurface themself into the top again and did all the right steps needed to make this happen.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

Mansell89
Mansell89
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Next year is a chance for the design team to really show off their prowess, and in Hondas 3rd year their chance to put together a power unit that has learned from its two years in the sport.

It is a big year.

Can I confirm- did Honda take on board one or two Mercedes staff into the engine department eventually?

Sasha
Sasha
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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TAG wrote:Brown, not Brawn.
SkyF1- Zak Brown receives offers from McLaren and Liberty Media
American businessman expected to decide on job offers in the next week; Sky sources reveal Ron Dennis feels 'betrayed by his own family' following his boardroom ousting
Honda would like the 'known to them' Brawn. But that will not happen because there are to many 'chiefs' at McLaren.

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Sasha wrote:
TAG wrote:Brown, not Brawn.
SkyF1- Zak Brown receives offers from McLaren and Liberty Media
American businessman expected to decide on job offers in the next week; Sky sources reveal Ron Dennis feels 'betrayed by his own family' following his boardroom ousting
Honda would like the 'known to them' Brawn. But that will not happen because there are to many 'chiefs' at McLaren.
Not to say anything bad of Brawn, but the McLaren Group is quite a lot bigger then just the racing team. They are probably more looking towards a automotive/commercial CEO then a racing director/team boss (who they already have in Boullier and that other guy who I can't think of now.

GoranF1
GoranF1
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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I think the new CEO of Mclaren should be Fernando Alonso.
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

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Redragon
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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The only role Dennis had since his return was to find a main sponsor and he haven't find. So it is normal that the board has resing him.

Since 2007 and spygate i lost my respect to him as great leader. Since his come back has been showing his pride telling about how Mclaren will be good again. Results haven't been as expected and Mclaren side haven't take responsibility for it but they have been criticizing Honda for all, which is somehow but they are the ones puting the most money on the budget so a bit of respect from Mclaren side would have been a bit more professional.

Also it fills to me that the road cars are impeding to sign a major sponsor as it has to be beneficial for both road as F1 so it is time to separate them, sign that big sponsor and bring the extra money necessary to be faster on the development of the F1 cars to be at front and win again.

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Imagine Button running the team instead and pop-miracle turns it into a winning team. that would be pretty awesome. And then step to drive in his own team lol.

I am sad about Dennis departing and the way things are going there now.
That being said, it's been a mess for a long time and it's not getting much better. Perhaps one should look at this as possibilities.

I do hope they'll sack Bouillier as fast as possible. He's worse than whitmarsh in every single way. Bouillier at the 'helm' to me gives me the vibes of somebody boiling water and calling it soup.
Yes, he's got a pan, yes he put it on the stove, yes, the stove is heating, and yes, he did water in it and it got boiling. however, it's not soup and boullier seems like somebody insisting calling it soup and thus not advancing or doing the right thing.

Say about Ron what you want, he got things done.

I can't think of a single person to jump in and 'fix' what's happening right there now to be honest. All i know is Eric should be ditched. Not the right guy there. Just another office guy sitting in a chair at a desk. I wonder what Jost Capito is able to do there, but i still feel there are some 'magic' ingredients missing.

Singlehandedly i think HAAS is THE team that surprised me the most. I have been supremely critical about that outfit before, and it has turned out completely wrong, which i absolutely adore. I love that team and what they're doing is massive. That's the kind of progress and 'moving mountains' that we need to see in big.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

Jolle
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Manoah2u wrote:Imagine Button running the team instead and pop-miracle turns it into a winning team. that would be pretty awesome. And then step to drive in his own team lol.

I am sad about Dennis departing and the way things are going there now.
That being said, it's been a mess for a long time and it's not getting much better. Perhaps one should look at this as possibilities.

I do hope they'll sack Bouillier as fast as possible. He's worse than whitmarsh in every single way. Bouillier at the 'helm' to me gives me the vibes of somebody boiling water and calling it soup.
Yes, he's got a pan, yes he put it on the stove, yes, the stove is heating, and yes, he did water in it and it got boiling. however, it's not soup and boullier seems like somebody insisting calling it soup and thus not advancing or doing the right thing.

Say about Ron what you want, he got things done.

I can't think of a single person to jump in and 'fix' what's happening right there now to be honest. All i know is Eric should be ditched. Not the right guy there. Just another office guy sitting in a chair at a desk. I wonder what Jost Capito is able to do there, but i still feel there are some 'magic' ingredients missing.

Singlehandedly i think HAAS is THE team that surprised me the most. I have been supremely critical about that outfit before, and it has turned out completely wrong, which i absolutely adore. I love that team and what they're doing is massive. That's the kind of progress and 'moving mountains' that we need to see in big.
I think you have the wrong impressions what the different people do (or did) at McLaren. Whitmarsh was CEO or McLaren Racing, a combined job of head of the factory and the racing director (running the team at the track). In his place they split the position up between a CEO (Capito) and the racing director (at the track with the racing team) (Boullier). Basically, Boullier and his team are given a car by the factory (Neil Oatly) overlooked by Capito and Dennis. The McLaren technology group, where Dennis was CEO of, is a 3500 people car maker, R&D center, electronics manufacturer and a F1 team. Here at F1T we only see the team, run by Boullier, who has almost no influence on the car, the company or sponsors.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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I wouldn't write off McLaren, there is a huge vacuum being left by Ron Dennis' departure, and the challenge will be two-fold, avoid any political in-fighting while filling that vacuum, and to attract the right people for the job. Neither will be easy but both will be necessary to take that last step. I don't think it will affect the racing team terribly however, unless of course there's a lot of political in-fighting as the 'chiefs' vie for establishing their reality tunnel at the expense of others.

Probably that's why Honda want's a Brawn in there, his management style largely centers around getting people to gel together.
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mclaren111
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Jost Capito is the boss / CEO of McLaren Racing and the effect of Dennis leaving should be minimal !!

Dennis was Group CEO and was "over-seeing" the Racing Business until Capito's arrival - Wittmarsh's replacement.

Tim Goss has been Technical Director for many years and is responsible for the design and build of the cars.

Matt Morris and Peter Prodromou are the other two Head Engineers designing the cars. (PP new of course).

I think 2017 is going to be a much better year !!!

BeardedAce
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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A bit unfair on Dennis, without him would McLaren be where they are now?

They have been constantly producing the best chassis on the grid since 2015. Only if they had a Merc PU i'm sure Fernando would've been a 4 times world champion by now.

Wonder what Honda is thinking right now, joined a sinking ship throwing loads of money and now all this turmoil. Bet they wish they took the Redbull route.

les arcs
les arcs
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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BeardedAce wrote:A bit unfair on Dennis, without him would McLaren be where they are now?

They have been constantly producing the best chassis on the grid since 2015. Only if they had a Merc PU i'm sure Fernando would've been a 4 times world champion by now.

Wonder what Honda is thinking right now, joined a sinking ship throwing loads of money and now all this turmoil. Bet they wish they took the Redbull route.
Best chassis since 2015, that is some leap!

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TAG
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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BeardedAce wrote:A bit unfair on Dennis, without him would McLaren be where they are now?

They have been constantly producing the best chassis on the grid since 2015. Only if they had a Merc PU i'm sure Fernando would've been a 4 times world champion by now.
Didnt they have a really long relationship with Mercedes and start the new regulations with a Merc PU? Someone decided to ditch it and go with Honda.
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Jolle
Jolle
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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BeardedAce wrote:A bit unfair on Dennis, without him would McLaren be where they are now?

They have been constantly producing the best chassis on the grid since 2015. Only if they had a Merc PU i'm sure Fernando would've been a 4 times world champion by now.

Wonder what Honda is thinking right now, joined a sinking ship throwing loads of money and now all this turmoil. Bet they wish they took the Redbull route.
Well, first of all, the haven't got a Mercedes PU. Someone made the decision to go for Honda instead. Next, there are multiple indications that their chassis isn't actually that good. For instance, loosing a rain soaked Brazilian GP to a STR with a 2015 Ferrari PU, at the moment two seasons of development behind.

It is one of the more beautiful cars on the grid.

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ClarkBT11
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Re: 2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

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Were does Ron go from here? Sell up and forget about f1 , start again or stay with mclaren.