Red Bull RB8 Renault

[Blackout]

I don't understand... Can someone answer these questions ?
It's me or there is 4 tunnels, not 2. 2 on each side of the sidpods ?
It's me or the larger tunnel entries (the newly rounded ones) are not connected to the silver channels - (they are maybe feeding the new big outlets that look like DD) the silver channels being fed via the smaller rectangular tunnel entries - ?
Where are the silver channels blowing ?
How is the starter hole blown ?

http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/14/79/55/26/floor_10.jpg

Edit I think now I see how is the rectanglar starter hole is blown. The silver channels are doing this...

[amc]

Before his first stop at the European GP, Vettel was told by Rocky "Torque map 1". Does this shed any light on what Red Bull are doing if they need a different torque map for a pit stop?

Also although I agree the Red Bull was the fastest car all round, I don't think it was as exceptional as it has looked. Looking at the fastest sector times in qualifying, the Red Bull is only fastest in sector 2, and by 18 thousandths, so the good lap time was surely only down to a perfect lap by Vettel.

At the start of the race Vettel did pull away, but only because Hamilton was unable to turn on the tyres and was being held up defending from Grosjean, who did once he had passed and cleared Hamilton's DRS was only slightly off Vettel's pace.

The advantage could be in tyre wear, as Webber did a 19 lap first stint on prime tyres while Button managed only 16 laps, but this may be due to Button's strategy as Button then did 26 plus the safety car period in his last stint.

I think the shape of the rear end on the Red Bull is designed to get as much advantage out of the exhaust as the regulations allow, and if the apparent gain is small at a track like Valencia which requires good off throttle and part throttle rear end stability, at Silverstone, where general aero performance is required, it may be a step backwards. Just a thought...

[N12ck]

I don't understand... Can someone answer these questions ?
It's me or there is 4 tunnels, not 2. 2 on each side of the sidpods ?
It's me or the larger tunnel entries (the newly rounded ones) are not connected to the silver channels - (they are maybe feeding the new big outlets that look like DD) the silver channels being fed via the smaller rectangular tunnel entries - ?
Where are the silver channels blowing ?
How is the starter hole blown ?

http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/14/79/55/26/floor_10.jpg

Edit I think now I see how is the rectanglar starter hole is blown. The silver channels are doing this...

right, there are 4 tunnels, 2 either side, the outer one blows the starter motor hole, the inner one, exits through the big outlets at the back,

[marcush.]

blowing the starter motor hole?

isn´t it the other way round and the air is drawn through that ducting enhancing the flow around the sidepods?

[Owen.C93]

I don't understand... Can someone answer these questions ?
It's me or there is 4 tunnels, not 2. 2 on each side of the sidpods ?
It's me or the larger tunnel entries (the newly rounded ones) are not connected to the silver channels - (they are maybe feeding the new big outlets that look like DD) the silver channels being fed via the smaller rectangular tunnel entries - ?
Where are the silver channels blowing ?
How is the starter hole blown ?

http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/14/79/55/26/floor_10.jpg

Edit I think now I see how is the rectanglar starter hole is blown. The silver channels are doing this...

Yeah, the small hole goes into the silver ducts and blows the starter motor hole and the large one directs air either side of the gearbox and out the lower hot air exit ontop of the diffuser. Check back a couple of pages for more explanation.

[N12ck]

blowing the starter motor hole?

isn´t it the other way round and the air is drawn through that ducting enhancing the flow around the sidepods?

nope, it was described on the flying lap by scarbs

[marcush.]

so please explain how that could possibly work..

as an idealisation I think of a tube going through a free stream of air .as the speed rises sure you got some boundary layer effects ...will this accelerate or make the air stream lesser inside the tube ? My feeling is at some point you will starve off any meaningful flow with increasing speed and as soon as you introduce some yaw thats even worsening the flow through the duct.So what does make the flow enter the duct in the first place ? lets assume the tube is a funnel and you move it small entry first through the air.damn sure with rising speed you will attract ever more air into the funnel the air trying to fill in the void you are cutting into the free air stream ...right?

[Crucial_Xtreme]

so please explain how that could possibly work..

as an idealisation I think of a tube going through a free stream of air .as the speed rises sure you got some boundary layer effects ...will this accelerate or make the air stream lesser inside the tube ? My feeling is at some point you will starve off any meaningful flow with increasing speed and as soon as you introduce some yaw thats even worsening the flow through the duct.So what does make the flow enter the duct in the first place ? lets assume the tube is a funnel and you move it small entry first through the air.damn sure with rising speed you will attract ever more air into the funnel the air trying to fill in the void you are cutting into the free air stream ...right?

"Because the double-floor inlet on the RB8 is fed by the flow along the flanks of the sidepods, and because that flow is fed by the front-wing wake, it should be sucking the air faster over the front-wing.

The double-floor duct will also presumably increase the flow-rate over the top of the diffuser, and in particular, the flow-rate over the diffuser's gurney-flap, both of which will have the effect of increasing the mass-flow capacity of the diffuser and underbody. Moreover, the stronger the suction through this upper-floor duct, the smaller the quantity of air which gets sucked under the floor just in front of the rear-wheels, a detrimental effect which can increase the turbulence in the outer channels of the diffuser.

So the double-floor should increase both front-wing downforce and underbody downforce. Very neat."

McCabism

[heho07]

Hi.
I do not understand how larger tunnel air goes to radiator exit as i do not see any duct for it unlike smaller tunnel that have a duct (silver duct).
Is it goes to radiator duct?
What is difference between V3.0 smaller tunnel and V2.0 tunnel?
What is main advantage of this exhaust/tunnel design?
Is it more efficient or it have some special thing?
Does Red Bull tunnel accelerate (suck) air as it seems tunnel outlet is much bigger than tunnel inlet (act like diffuser)?

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Hi.
I do not understand how larger tunnel air goes to radiator exit as i do not see any duct for it unlike smaller tunnel that have a duct (silver duct).
Is it goes to radiator duct?
What is difference between V3.0 smaller tunnel and V2.0 tunnel?
What is main advantage of this exhaust/tunnel design?
Is it more efficient or it have some special thing?
Does Red Bull tunnel accelerate (suck) air as it seems tunnel outlet is much bigger than tunnel inlet (act like diffuser)?

If you look at the duct opening there's obviously two different places for air to go. The 2nd tunnel is what you see in the picture with the silver duct. That is the one which leads to the starter motor hole.

The first duct filters out at the central radiator exit and it doesn't need it's "own" duct as the rad cooling isn't usually ducted itself. If you think about it, it's high speed air & it's going to go in quickly and find it's way out quickly. Either way once inside the duct/tunnel it joins with the air from the radiator and vents out through the enlarged central outlet.
The most recent version of the tunnel before the Valencia iteration we don't know much about. We saw the entry but never saw the exit so it could've exited at the SMH(starter motor hole) or at the central cooling exit.
The version before this exited right at the pull rod in the coke bottle area.

For a good analysis of the RB tunnel read this--> http://mccabism.blogspot.com/2012/06/re ... floor.html

Scarbs should post a new update on his site about this new update early this coming week. He posted an article in AutoSport so he has to wait a week before posting it on his site.

[amc]

Because the double-floor inlet on the RB8 is fed by the flow along the flanks of the sidepods, and because that flow is fed by the front-wing wake, it should be sucking the air faster over the front-wing.

Sorry, can someone explain this?

In order for air to be 'sucked' along the car, there needs to be high static pressure at the front of the car and low static pressure at the back. This means there must be low dynamic pressure at the front, and high dynamic pressure at the back. This means there must be low airspeed at the front and high airspeed at the back. This means air must be accelerated from the front to the back. This means there is a backwards force on the air. This means there is a forwards force on the car. Where a force is applied, energy is transferred. So a passive structure is transferring energy. Have I made an error somewhere?

If Adrian Newey could see us now. Maybe he can; if thermodynamics doesn't apply to him then what else can he do?

[heho07]

Thanks Crucial_Xtreme.

"Because the double-floor inlet on the RB8 is fed by the flow along the flanks of the sidepods, and because that flow is fed by the front-wing wake, it should be sucking the air faster over the front-wing.

The double-floor duct will also presumably increase the flow-rate over the top of the diffuser, and in particular, the flow-rate over the diffuser's gurney-flap, both of which will have the effect of increasing the mass-flow capacity of the diffuser and underbody. Moreover, the stronger the suction through this upper-floor duct, the smaller the quantity of air which gets sucked under the floor just in front of the rear-wheels, a detrimental effect which can increase the turbulence in the outer channels of the diffuser.

So the double-floor should increase both front-wing downforce and underbody downforce. Very neat."

McCabism

As i know air over front wing goes upward so tunnels can not suck them.
If they can do it then it should decrease front wing downforce because they accelerate air over FW instead of air under FW.
Meanwhile all teams direct underneath sidepod air toward coke bottle and above diffuser to increase the flow-rate over the top of the diffuser.

[marcush.]

So it´s a sucking action and not a ram effect ,right?

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Thanks Crucial_Xtreme.


As i know air over front wing goes upward so tunnels can not suck them.
If they can do it then it should decrease front wing downforce because they accelerate air over FW instead of air under FW.
Meanwhile all teams direct underneath sidepod air toward coke bottle and above diffuser to increase the flow-rate over the top of the diffuser.

Surely you don't think all the air that goes over the FW goes only upwards? Different parts of the FW direct air to different places on the car, set up/create vortices to go towards certain parts and work with low pressure areas, etc. It doesn't all go up in the air over the car.


@Marcush It seems so. For instance Gary Anderson says the low pressure in the diffuser area is helping suck air, especially the flow close to the rear tyre.

[Owen.C93]

Well it will always go from a high pressure to low pressure otherwise it wouldn't work at all. If you're asking whether the ducts are to manipulate sidepod air flow or whether they are for blowing the diffuser then it's probably just killing two birds with one stone, although I'm sure the feeding of the diffuser offers the better benefit.