Mercedes AMG F1 W03

[Ganxxta]

... only mgp knows

...or not.

[Joie de vivre]

then tell us why don't they revise exhaust layout and keep cascades on FW? why is it so hard to test 2 different layouts (mclaren & rbrs one)?

[elf341]

It is surprising to me that they haven't even tested (!) other exhausts.
Didn't Caterham build a carbon copy of the RB8 B-Spec within a couple of races? and then a carbon copy of the McLaren a few races later?
If Caterham could whip up a couple of proto-models, then surely Brackley with the huge force of Stuttgart can?

[Ganxxta]

then tell us why don't they revise exhaust layout and keep cascades on FW? why is it so hard to test 2 different layouts (mclaren & rbrs one)?

I think you misunderstood me, my intention was to say that they don't have a clue either what works for them and what don't.
See also the monkeyseat tryouts every race and every practice session.

[Joie de vivre]

my bad ...
feel so stupid right now

[Huntresa]

It is surprising to me that they haven't even tested (!) other exhausts.
Didn't Caterham build a carbon copy of the RB8 B-Spec within a couple of races? and then a carbon copy of the McLaren a few races later?
If Caterham could whip up a couple of proto-models, then surely Brackley with the huge force of Stuttgart can?

And ? Lotus hasnt either and they are fighting for podiums. Switching the exhaust on the merc wont help at all rly, they need to better understand the car, it looked good but they wont win or get more podiums, its always next year AGAIN

[siskue2005]

It is surprising to me that they haven't even tested (!) other exhausts.
Didn't Caterham build a carbon copy of the RB8 B-Spec within a couple of races? and then a carbon copy of the McLaren a few races later?
If Caterham could whip up a couple of proto-models, then surely Brackley with the huge force of Stuttgart can?

And ? Lotus hasnt either and they are fighting for podiums. Switching the exhaust on the merc wont help at all rly, they need to better understand the car, it looked good but they wont win or get more podiums, its always next year AGAIN

Lotus don't need it coz their aero is superior in the rear , and moreover their exhaust is much more posterior to Mercs and it is aimed at beaming and below the rear wing.....where as Mercs is just blowing the entire area from much much further back

[Huntresa]

It is surprising to me that they haven't even tested (!) other exhausts.
Didn't Caterham build a carbon copy of the RB8 B-Spec within a couple of races? and then a carbon copy of the McLaren a few races later?
If Caterham could whip up a couple of proto-models, then surely Brackley with the huge force of Stuttgart can?

And ? Lotus hasnt either and they are fighting for podiums. Switching the exhaust on the merc wont help at all rly, they need to better understand the car, it looked good but they wont win or get more podiums, its always next year AGAIN

Lotus don't need it coz their aero is superior in the rear , and moreover their exhaust is much more posterior to Mercs and it is aimed at beaming and below the rear wing.....where as Mercs is just blowing the entire area from much much further back

And there we have it, yes the car is worse in aero, so why develop an exhaust when obv need to develop other stuff?

[siskue2005]

Coz they will yield some downforce via diffuser blowing, which their aero lack!

[Huntresa]

Coz they will yield some downforce via diffuser blowing, which their aero lack!

But it wouldnt solve anything... It wouldnt close any gap if they still lack in aero!

[siskue2005]

Yes it will, you don't need the best aero to make a blown diffusor work

Look how much Mclaren gained last year when they just copied rbr diffusor side blowing, even with having far inferior aero than rbr?....I know last yr no restriction on engine blowing, but there is still few tenth to be gained this year

[Huntresa]

Yeah but what i mean is that if you lack in aero these days especially this year when there is barely any loopholes except the DDRS or 2nd function of DRS you fall behind and cant close the gap by just copying, you actually need to work more and do more.

Its not like Ferrari copied mclaren exhaust and just started winning.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

then tell us why don't they revise exhaust layout and keep cascades on FW? why is it so hard to test 2 different layouts (mclaren & rbrs one)?

I think you misunderstood me, my intention was to say that they don't have a clue either what works for them and what don't.
See also the monkeyseat tryouts every race and every practice session.

There could be a very good reason why Mercedes have not adopted the exhausts. Schumacher alluded to the next race being "very interesting" for the mapping issue we heard about over the weekend.
Basically, teams with aggressive exhaust set ups are still blowing their diffusers via clever mapping. Some maps are more aggressive than others, but all maps will have to fall within a 2% limit(torque spread) as specified by the FIA(sourced from autosport).
We have seen red bull catapult ahead as well as Ferrari, and McLaren where very fast with their exhaust in Germany. It could be that with this clamp down, things will be taken back 3 or so months.
The W03 still has the same exhaust as when first debuted, and maybe the reason they haven't changed is because they have not been using this agressive mapping as others. I read on twitter that it's not only red bull.

I may be clutching at straws, but I feel there is a link as is there a link to how the W03 has fallen behind the red bull and Ferrari when at the start of the season there was very little in it.
Hungary will shed light on this.

[Joie de vivre]

If so, why haven't they map it so agressively like others?

They were always slow at copying (remember EBD?). It's just like "yeah we ain't copying others, that's not original blah blah blah, we have our own ideas ... WHICH ARE COPIED BY OTHER!!!). Others didn't hesitate to copy double dif in 09. They knew the advantages of it and started to copy it asap.

If they continue with no updates, they will be falling behind, even Force India will soon be faster than them.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

If so, why haven't they map it so agressively like others?

They were always slow at copying (remember EBD?). It's just like "yeah we ain't copying others, that's not original blah blah blah, we have our own ideas ... WHICH ARE COPIED BY OTHER!!!). Others didn't hesitate to copy double dif in 09. They knew the advantages of it and started to copy it asap.

If they continue with no updates, they will be falling behind, even Force India will soon be faster than them.

Perhaps Mercedes where interpreting the rules as they saw them. Not all the front running teams are using the "aggressive maps".
Cast your mind back 6 months ago. It was already predicted that exhausts, or an effect from the exhaust would rear its head again in 2012, most TDs mooted it. Mercedes own ddrs took the attention away, but here we are.
And it's being building up all the while, Mercedes have appeared stagnant in this area.
It's certainly not advantageous, but then McLaren have only just changed, and lotus and Sauber remain the same as before.
So it's not just Mercedes.

If a team decides to reinterpret the rules, as Red Bull have, and got away with up till now(look at their change a few weeks back) Mercedes cannot just be forced to copy something that a) could be illegal and b) may not actually work with their W03 concept. It's not a tractor, where you can just graft bits and bobs on and expect it work. If it is indeed illegal we may see red bill revert back to their original exhausts. And how stupid would Mercedes be to invest time and resource into something that is likely to be deemed illegal(mapping... And how it works with the exhaust).