single, twin, V or no keel

manchild · Post 19 Jan 2006, 17:59

dumrick wrote:What you call a rubber skid shield could also be a ride height sensor.

You might be right but the one from Piolla's "drawing" from Shangai or Suzuka 2005 looks different. Anyway, it is not related to isue I'm pulling here.

Guest · Post 25 Jan 2006, 17:51

I think F1 fore gone the use of spherical bearing for a-arms inboard pickup for a while now. "flexture" as they call it is used since the suspension experience so little movement these days....

How do you define the roll center though for a car with geometry like the Toyota's raising wishbone? Would it end up very high or very low. And what of those car with the top and bottom wishbone that gets further apart as they move inboard?

se7725 · Post 26 Jan 2006, 01:09

http://www.formula1.com/insight/technic ... 3/217.html

The official F1 site article above give a OK explanation and might answer a few of your questions.

Overall i don't think the roll center would change much but I would have to imagian that it is raised a little beacuse of the higher mounting of the suspension.

Guest · Post 26 Jan 2006, 12:46

Wishbones on toyota point up, but don't converge greatly leading to a big lateral distance to IC. Without a scehmatic its hard to see where it will end up. I would not base a position upon solely looking at how the wishbones seem to slope up as others have. If the wishbones were parrellel (which they are not by the way) then the RC would be on the floor as the ICs would be at infinity

Mr T

RH1300S · Post 26 Jan 2006, 14:49

Anonymous wrote:Wishbones on toyota point up, but don't converge greatly leading to a big lateral distance to IC. Without a scehmatic its hard to see where it will end up. I would not base a position upon solely looking at how the wishbones seem to slope up as others have. If the wishbones were parrellel (which they are not by the way) then the RC would be on the floor as the ICs would be at infinity

Mr T

Exactly......when you look at most f1 front ends, the wishbones converge very gently so it's hard to see where the RC is.

IMHO - the roll centre position would be easy to achieve. Maintaining it would be harder, but doable. I should imagine the hard bit would be combining the RC location with a geometry that gives a camber curve that the tyre wants (possibly easier with a Michelin?)

Guest · Post 26 Jan 2006, 15:12

Are they running much higher nominal negative camber i guess? If the ICs are a long way out laterally, the will result in very little camber change with bump. They may also find an advantage from the resulting scrub?

Mr T

se7725 · Post 27 Jan 2006, 20:14

OK, all the big teams have shown their cars to the public and I thought i would updateon who is using what.

Renault - V
McLaren - no keel
Ferrari - single but i have read romours about them changing to a v keel?
Toyota - no keel
Williams - no keel
Honda Racing - no keel
Red Bull Racing - V
BMW - no keel

it really has surprised me that so many of the teams switched to no keels, i thought for sure that bmw and maybe honda where going to stick with a single keel becuase of the memory of everyone trying the twin keel only to move back to th single.

JimmyK · Post 28 Jan 2006, 16:39

I think it said on various websites that Ferrari is definately going with the V-keel. I expected the zero-keel but I suppose Brawn or Byrne (one of the two) was worried about the strength of zero-keels (which was then proved as Kimi's McLaren's suspension broke due to the vibrations caused by the flat-spotted tyre)

Spencifer_Murphy · Post 28 Jan 2006, 16:42

Renault - V Keel
Mclaren - Zero Keel
Ferrari - V
BAR - Zero
BMW-Sauber - Zero
Red Bull - V
Toyota - V
Williams - Zero
Midland - ???
STR - ???

Will we see a single or twin-keel car AT ALL in 2006???!!!

manchild · Post 28 Jan 2006, 19:21

Ferrari and STR have single keel, I'm not sure about the Midland. Toyota has no keel.

johny · Post 28 Jan 2006, 19:24

srt is using rbr1 so we don't know the new chassis

Sawtooth-spike · Post 28 Jan 2006, 23:34

The ferrari is reported to be a V Keel

manchild · Post 29 Jan 2006, 00:35

Sawtooth-spike wrote:The ferrari is reported to be a V Keel

No, no... it's single

If you can't see it just brighten monitor a bit

Sawtooth-spike · Post 29 Jan 2006, 09:44

yeah i saw that picture just after i posted that message.

Autosport lied to me.

Spencifer_Murphy · Post 29 Jan 2006, 16:48

Sorry My mistake...I meant to put Toyota - ZERO keel....but i put V as I was in a rush...my mistake...i shud proof read.

Also: My mistake about the F248...I thought it had been confirmed as a V-Keel by Ferrari at its launch.

I thought maybe STR would launch their own chassis...not that of the RB1. So thats y i put ??? about thier keel options.

Eitherway, do you think we'll see a Twin Keel car in 2006? To be honest I doubt it now.