2014 Austrian Grand Prix - Red Bull Ring

[beelsebob]

I believe that as a rule of thumb the stewards will only penalize going outside the track if you shorten the track length (cut on the inside of a corner).

No, the rule of thumb is that the stewards will penalise you if you gain advantage by going outside the track in a place where you have not explicitly been told you can. For example, the exit of Ascari at Monza is one place where the stewards usually tell the drivers that they may use the run off area.

[BanMeToo]

Watch the 2003 race - absolutely every car went wide at turn one.

I know, but the questions was whether it was allowed and I think the rules about track limits were in place in 2003? It's just that everybody did it, and nobody got a penalty for it, but it wasn't allowed by the rules right?

Yea, and It's always been like that until recently (maybe 2 or 3 years ago they started cracking down at more and more circuits iirc.) I'm sure they will make an announcement about it next Thursday / Friday or maybe even install a small second curb to remove the advantage.

edit: whoops didn't see the 3rd page

[Pieoter]

I believe that as a rule of thumb the stewards will only penalize going outside the track if you shorten the track length (cut on the inside of a corner).

No, the rule of thumb is that the stewards will penalise you if you gain advantage by going outside the track in a place where you have not explicitly been told you can. For example, the exit of Ascari at Monza is one place where the stewards usually tell the drivers that they may use the run off area.

I can not remember the last time a driver was penalized for lengthening the track.

[mertol]

Might not be the last time but is the one I remember - Grosjean vs Massa in Hungary. Occasionaly they take the right decisions too...

[astracrazy]

I believe that as a rule of thumb the stewards will only penalize going outside the track if you shorten the track length (cut on the inside of a corner).

No, the rule of thumb is that the stewards will penalise you if you gain advantage by going outside the track in a place where you have not explicitly been told you can. For example, the exit of Ascari at Monza is one place where the stewards usually tell the drivers that they may use the run off area.

I can not remember the last time a driver was penalized for lengthening the track.

it leads on to a straight, so by taking a wider line and running wide your keeping up a higher apex speed - so will gain an advantage for the straight

[beelsebob]

I believe that as a rule of thumb the stewards will only penalize going outside the track if you shorten the track length (cut on the inside of a corner).

No, the rule of thumb is that the stewards will penalise you if you gain advantage by going outside the track in a place where you have not explicitly been told you can. For example, the exit of Ascari at Monza is one place where the stewards usually tell the drivers that they may use the run off area.

I can not remember the last time a driver was penalized for lengthening the track.

Grosjean in Hungary last year, Vettel in Hockenheim a couple of years ago.

[RicerDude]

I thought Grosjean was penalised for cutting the chicane when overtaking Button after he pushed him off the track? People just got confused with the two different incidents and thought the stewards were penalising him for going over the white line while overtaking Massa because the wording of the penalty would have been the same for the two separate incidents.

[mikeerfol]

I thought Grosjean was penalised for cutting the chicane when overtaking Button after he pushed him off the track? People just got confused with the two different incidents and thought the stewards were penalising him for going over the white line while overtaking Massa because the wording of the penalty would have been the same for the two separate incidents.

He was actually penalised for both incidents.

[basti313]

There is only one way to solve this in a fair an equal way: Curbs that slow you down when you cut or go wide.
The track limits are just not judgeable and will always lead to inappropriate discussions. Beelsebob gave two nice examples, but there are a lot more like Alonso in Abu Dhabi....

[beelsebob]

There is only one way to solve this in a fair an equal way: Curbs that slow you down when you cut or go wide.
The track limits are just not judgeable and will always lead to inappropriate discussions. Beelsebob gave two nice examples, but there are a lot more like Alonso in Abu Dhabi....

Said curbs will launch you in a crash though, so putting them around the outside edge of the track is not a great plan.

[PlatinumZealot]

These kinds of things are discussed in the driver briefing before the race. No biggie.

[raymondu999]

I've talked with someone who those of you who've been here a while should remember.

Here's what he had to say:

There is a solution, Tif, and you must have seen it, because you have read my very short and concise posts (oh, the good times you must have spent on them!) on circuits:

Paul Ricard abrasive stripes
https://sites.google.com/site/cirospict ... tripes.png

As everybody, including young Adam, knows, the blue abrasive stripes damage your tyres forcing you to pit, the red ones disable the tyres and put you out of the race. Both types allow you to brake and recover if heading for the barriers. I have no idea what the white ones are for.

I wouldn't call FIA accomplices, I would call them cheap. Besides, if you ask me, the track looks cool.

Thread: http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... =1&t=13195

[Tim.Wright]

There is only one way to solve this in a fair an equal way: Curbs that slow you down when you cut or go wide.
The track limits are just not judgeable and will always lead to inappropriate discussions. Beelsebob gave two nice examples, but there are a lot more like Alonso in Abu Dhabi....

Said curbs will launch you in a crash though, so putting them around the outside edge of the track is not a great plan.

This attitude is why the tracks today are boring to watch. If there is sufficient run off what exactly is the problem of a curb which will tear your suspension or wings off the car? If you actually think this is too dangerous, then by your logic monaco, canada, spa and suzuka should be removed from the calender since they all have highspeed sections with barriers close to the track on turn exit...

When you watch a qualy lap of monaco or montreal and you see someone right up against the barriers on the exit of the swimming pool or the last chicane, you can tangibly see the the driver is pushing and you can appreciate the skill of a great driver if they are able to do that lap after lap.

Now, there are no drastic consequences of cutting corners and in fact Rosberg has even shown that if you do cut a corner which reduced the theat of a challenging car you are even allowed to slow down later in the lap when it suits you and give that time back at a point when you are no longer under immediate threat.

In my opinion, track redesign and a rethink of the sporting regs would go a long way to improving the spectacle without touching the cars themselves

[Cuky]

Watch the 2003 race - absolutely every car went wide at turn one.

I know, but the questions was whether it was allowed and I think the rules about track limits were in place in 2003? It's just that everybody did it, and nobody got a penalty for it, but it wasn't allowed by the rules right?

It wasn't allowed back then, but there were few exceptions made during the season...T1 in Austria and last chicane + S/F straight in France are those that come to my mind now.

[basti313]

There is only one way to solve this in a fair an equal way: Curbs that slow you down when you cut or go wide.
The track limits are just not judgeable and will always lead to inappropriate discussions. Beelsebob gave two nice examples, but there are a lot more like Alonso in Abu Dhabi....

Said curbs will launch you in a crash though, so putting them around the outside edge of the track is not a great plan.

Why? I do not think of curbs, that launch your car up into the air...just a small, ribbed curb with low grip that makes you run wide on the outside. Or these nice grass carpets, that have no grip at all, on the exit of the corner. On the inside nice, high curbs to avoid cutting. Not as bad as these, but high enough to slow you down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQK_BF-0Jg