Refuelling 2017

[PlatinumZealot]

I underatand the reason why you would want just 1 engine, but 1 race engine for an entire season would not be optimized for performance. People pay to see cars that are bred purely for racing, not for long term driveability. I want cars on the bleeding edge of performance, not detuned for reliability.

So WEC cars aren't real racing cars? They do 5200km during the 24h and they are pushing for most of the race. Less engines doesn't mean that the engines are less powerful. Its just shows engineering prowess. A full F1 season with 20 races is 20*300= 6000km. If Lemans engine can do 5200km in one day. F1 should we able do that during the whole season. Also think about the cost reduction. In the F3 euro series they are already only allowed 1 engine.

If you measured engine life, in cycles the F1 engines are right up there. The F1 engines can last pretty long before blowing up. The issue is that they lose power from wear and tear that they are not competitive at the end of their life.

If the regulations allowed exotic materials and coatings then things might be better. Some of those materials are poisonous btw.

[FW17]

Why does it take till 2017 for refueling to return?

Cant it be post summer?

[ME4ME]

This is seriously the best F1-related news in years. Can't wait for the real sprint racing to return. Imagine drivers like Hamilton, Alonso, Ricciardo racing qualifying-style throughout the race, while lapping way way quicker then current cars

[SoCalWJS]

Wow!

I hope they stick to it. This would bring back some excitement that's been missing for awhile. Different teams making different decisions about setup (tires), refueling strategies, higher speeds. Bring it on! =D>

[dmjunqueira]

I did not like refuelling comeback to F1...Reasons:
- I think that driver's work will be even easier, because of the less weight they will carry, and they no longer will have to adapt to the weight change of the car during the race.
- Some years ago everybody was complaining that there was no passing on the track because the teams prefer to wait for the long refuelling pit stops to pass the other cars (remember the boooooooring very, very boring, Schumacher/Ferrari victories).
- The refuelling can minimize the impact of the "free choice of tires" because the stints will be shorter and so they can prevent tire degradation.

[f1316]

Fantastic news; really really hope it gets ratified - have been waiting 5 years for them to see the error of their ways.

And by the way, you'll see the drivers pushing much harder, having to push to the limits more rather than protect the tyres,so no way will it be easier for the drivers. We'll also get that great unknown: 'what strategy is everyone on?'

Awesome.

[Manoah2u]

as others have stated;

negative to refueling :

1. because if we're gonna introduce refueling in a 'green f1 format', then how do you explain the implemention of the fuelling ban either way? why impose the fuel flow restriction before then?

2. you can achieve the same higher rpm, louder, faster cars by simply removing the fuel flow ban and upping to 150kg of fuel.

3. do we really need 'like father like son' Max going in flames like his father famously did back in 1994?

4. we still get unsafe releases through faulty connected wheel hubs from a topteam like Ferrari [remember Raikkonen],
it's not unlikely this is going to go into repeat mode;

5. I thought we wanted to see racing, overtaking, not pitstop strategies [ even though the undercut happens now too]


either way, i'm happy the sound and speed will increase. not the way it's handled though, this is just dumb.

[thedutchguy]

The return of refueling is long overdue. A big part of the slow laptimes these days is due to the amount of weight that the cars carry with them. At the start of the race, the pace is about 8 to 10 seconds per lap slower than in qualifying, which is a joke. Refuelling will solve that. Safety will be an issue, but they'll figure it out. Plenty of other racing series which allow refueling without people dying every time.

Another great thing: the aim to shave of 30 to 50 kg of weight from the cars. Together with lower fuel loads, this will make for way more nimble cars in during the races.

[iotar__]

Welcome back fuel corrected pole positions, unclear grid and track order and disadvantaging team mates with a strategy. I don't recall anything exciting about it, it's just another approach to racing with some pros and many cons. Apart from those mentioned: vacuum bubble races from the start, weight and first stint length strategies overlapping creating some drama, very limited strategy, everyone knowing what others would do, long pitstops and mistakes deciding races, safety, slower cars before pitstop overtaking faster ones.

It's a "change" so it must be exciting, new improved washing powder with little blue bits (refuelling), your clothes will look exactly the same as will F1 racing without the real changes: in prize money distribution, competitiveness, technical and sporting regulation decision making, tracks, prices, audience and coverage. My guess is it's about keeping hybrids and fuel saving while making it somehow quicker - lighter is quicker. What about costs of another regulation change adjustments for bankrupting team? Who cares.

[Moxie]

I don't have a problem with refueling in its own right. Many forms of racing I enjoy involve refueling.

I have a problem how F1 deals with refueling. During the last period when F1 allowed refueling, the biggest problem was premature release while still attached to the fuel rig. F1 still has too many unsafe releases with near collisions and improperly attached wheels...but what the hell let's throw a hundred liters of fuel on it for a little excitement. (Of course that was sarcastic) The human penalty for an unsafe release may be someone's life. I don't want to see that. The regulatory penalty for an unsafe release must be so severe that no team would dare to violate the rule. Because of Bernie's influence I have no faith in the FIA fairly applying any rule (see forum on track limits from a couple of years ago) therefore I must say that I am opposed to refueling in F1.

I realize the following train of thought crosses over two different threads, but I will put this particular statement here because of the safety issue involved. However I will admit that further discussion of the general effects of premium payments should be handled in that thread.

As I considered the life and death consequences of refueling accidents, and the effect of the FIA implementing strong fines, I realized that any fine structure that the FIA implements is really biased to the point that rich teams can largely ignore rules that would put most of the poor teams out of business. Aside from just being wealthier teams, the receipt of a premium payment creates a situation where a team like Ferrari has much less incentive to follow Life and Death rules, than does a team like Sauber. Is it really a fine for a team that is given extra budget in the first place? Nope!!! Just the cost of doing business!

Considering the past history of refueling accidents in F1, any penalty for unsafe release must be along the lines of a ten race suspension that carries over into the next season if necessary, and enforcement of said suspension must somehow be put beyond Bernie's control. (Yeah right I know!!! That is why I am opposed to refueling in F1)

[PlatinumZealot]

Welcome back fuel corrected pole positions.

Why do you think the qualifying format will change?

[FW17]

as others have stated;

negative to refueling :
3. do we really need 'like father like son' Max going in flames like his father famously did back in 1994?

4. we still get unsafe releases through faulty connected wheel hubs from a topteam like Ferrari [remember Raikkonen],
it's not unlikely this is going to go into repeat mode;


either way, i'm happy the sound and speed will increase. not the way it's handled though, this is just dumb.

Statically the % of refueling events that were a safety concern are lower than the % of loose wheel incidents in the last 4 years

[Cannonballer]

But why do you assume that if F1 goes to 1 engine for the race. That it won't be a optimized engine? Thats what I was trying to say. We went from 1 engine for every session to 4 engines for the whole season in 2 decades. Why should F1 stop innovating in that regard?

Because of the Project Management Triangle. Applied to racing in the old saying: "Cheap, fast, or reliable - You can only choose two. "

With the current financial situation in F1 cheap is a must although perhaps better stated as not exorbitantly expensive. That only leaves fast and reliable to choose from...

[bhall II]

1. because if we're gonna introduce refueling in a 'green f1 format', then how do you explain the implemention of the fuelling ban either way? why impose the fuel flow restriction before then?

...this is just dumb.

The refueling ban is inconsistent with F1's recent push toward efficiency, because it doesn't make any sense to carry the fuel needed for the last lap of the race from the first lap of the race. This is doubly so when you consider that each (unavoidable) pit stop ultimately represents a missed opportunity to make the cars that much lighter/quicker/more efficient.

Of the many knock-on effects of refueling will be the end of grotesquely long wheelbases. That will make chassis lighter, stiffer, cheaper, less sensitive to aero changes, and easier to set up.

And since there's a very strong correlation between wheelbase and directional stability, the cars will be more nimble and more difficult to drive as a result of reduced stability.



In short, I think this is the best change F1 has made in a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time.

[SectorOne]

Toto´s words on the refuelling.

Mercedes F1 boss Toto Wolff said: "We discussed many topics. Refuelling was banned because of cost and because the pit stops were taking too long. But we want to re-explore it and see if we can make pit stops for fuel and tyres happen in the same time it takes to change the tyres now - two to three seconds.
"We have agreed to explore this avenue and the cost involved because it could be spectacular. If it's too expensive, we won't do it."

Sticking a hose on it and pump 50kg´s of fuel in 2-3 seconds while changing tires is just bad news.
The only way i see that is possible is with some sort of canister system where you simply take off the empty one, lock into place the new one.