Data Theft still alive and well in F1

[GoranF1]

Only people who think we live in some fairy tail can belive Ferrari didnt get that data.

[turbof1]

Only people who think we live in some fairy tail can belive Ferrari didnt get that data.

Yes, but the issue you still have to be able to prove it. Without anything solid and just suspicion to go on, you are just throwing money away in court. Worse, Ferrari could in turn sue Mercedes for slander.

There will be an investigation now. We'll see if it brings anything solid leading to Ferrari.

[R_Redding]

even if Ferrari has the data their easy defense is we didnt know he stole it and have no idea how he aquired it

McLaren probably had no idea that the data Ferraris Stepney sent them was stolen either , but it would have been fairly obvious that it was Ferrari property ...but they still had the data ,and paid for it dearly.

This Merc scenario looks more like sour grapes over losing an engineer who knows all the secrets. The fact they want him sidelined until 2017 affirms this ..were it purely about provable data theft, the sidelining would not be a issue as they'd expect a custodial sentence.

[GoranF1]

Only people who think we live in some fairy tail can belive Ferrari didnt get that data.

Yes, but the issue you still have to be able to prove it. Without anything solid and just suspicion to go on, you are just throwing money away in court. Worse, Ferrari could in turn sue Mercedes for slander.

There will be an investigation now. We'll see if it brings anything solid leading to Ferrari.

I agree

[mrluke]

You can only track the IP adress for a physical location. It's not a stretch to go inside an internet cafe, any university with open door policy or even just buy a laptop with cash money and go to a place with public wifi (and afterwards destroy the laptop or atleast its internet hardware), and download the data on an usb stick. Untrackable.

Assuming that, there would still be trails left. If it was uploaded onto the internet, you can be sure it will be traceable via some form of storage device signature.
Where it would become murky is if he use a proxy server in a cafe.

But even this would incriminate him, as there would be a record to show he used a proxy server. What reasonable excuse would you have to use a proxy server in an internet cafe/public wifi location?

And if they can't find the device, because it has been destroyed...this too would be incriminating. And from Sawards story, there were several devices involved here.

If you went through a secure VPN at an internet cafe that would be pretty difficult to track.

[dans79]

This Merc scenario looks more like sour grapes over losing an engineer who knows all the secrets. The fact they want him sidelined until 2017 affirms this ..were it purely about provable data theft, the sidelining would not be a issue as they'd expect a custodial sentence.

You are joking right, this is a pretty standard procedure for an issue like this, regardless of the industry.

What Merc will be trying to determine, or potentially prove through legal proceedings would be one of the following.

A) did he do it just for future personal reference? (Ferrari is safe, as they did nothing wrong)
B) did he do it for Ferrari because they asked him to. (Ferrari will have legal & FIA problems)
C) does Ferrari have any of the Mercedes proprietary data already. (Ferrari is really in it deep now, & 2015 results could be called into question)

This could easily take a year or more, with various group's doing investigations, and potential plea agreements etc.

[GoranF1]

Ferrari spokesman just said he is not joining Ferrari.

Of course he no longer needs job or money,thats secured.

[lio007]

update on that: https://twitter.com/PatrickGower/status ... 8840289281 EDIT: oh, just realized that GoranF1 already gave us the update

[ME4ME]

Assuming the man is guilty, what would his punishment be in England? A month in prison?

[Skippon]

I suspect Ferrari won't touch Ben Hoyle now as he's "tainted goods".

[a1b2i3r45]

Assuming the man is guilty, what would his punishment be in England? A month in prison?

This is a civil lawsuit not a criminal lawsuit. So the punishment will be some sorts of compensation to Mercedes HPP. However, in these cases, Claimant must produce evidence beyond the balance of probabilities.

[ScottB]

Now the question is, did Ferrari ask him to, or know about, his plan to steal this data? If there's any record of that conversation, should it have happened, then this could be huge.

At the least, could he have planned to show this data when he pitched up in Maranello, or was he just going to refer to it at home and take that knowledge into work? Obviously as it has been pointed out, having knowledge isn't something that can be stopped, but trying to take things stolen from a workplace is.

[LookBackTime]

update on that:
https://twitter.com/PatrickGower/status ... 8840289281

EDIT: oh, just realized that GoranF1 already gave us the update

Well if this guy is coming now and shows some e-mails (exchanged with Ferrari people) then Ferrari is toasted!

[nanocustic]

Or maybe Hoyle was only intended to have "those" conversations with Ferrari. That doesn't mean he has the obligation to work with them, and it wouldn't seem like it was Ferrari's plan all along. Of course, its only my imagination but still.

If there is a proved benefit out of this, would Ferrari be banned for Constructors like Mclaren did back in '07?

[Just_a_fan]

The employee is pretty much toast as far as stealing data... good luck to mercedes in their attempt to incriminate Ferrari.... they would have to prove that Ferrari made their current employee commit this theft for their gain....even if Ferrari has the data their easy defense is we didnt know he stole it and have no idea how he aquired it

If they have the data then they are holding stolen property. That's a crime in just about every jurisdiction in the world. Saying "we didn't know he stole the data" is no defence because they know they shouldn't have it at all.

If the FIA get involved then we might see a rerun of McLaren's fine and team exclusion.