2021 Styrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 25 - 27

[Sieper]

Fully agreed. And it is also extremely hard to disregard driver performance (especially in different cars) but I was just disagreeing with PZs comparative performance analysis of both cars.

[zibby43]

Whoa.

[sosic2121]

Yup. Honda in front on ICE now it seems. Only saving grace for Merc is the car seems to be gentler on its tyres in the middle of stints.

Anyone remember if tyres are a big issue in Austria? I know overtaking is easy once a tyre advantage is there, but can't remember if tyre wores are result of bad strategy or globally induced by the track characteristics.

I am going to give it one last try. Why do you say this? Last race Hamilton first stint. Max was never able to fully chase. All throughout the stint Max kept slipping back further. By about 0.1 0.2 per lap on average. To in lap 18 already the pitstop came and then it was 3.1. Not the full 5/6 seconds Hamilton always used to keep the gap it but it was also not yet lap 22/25 so at that point it could well have been (imho the gap building was slightly increasing towards the later laps in the stint.

After the first pit stop, and eventhough Merc went for just 1 Max was never coming out of the 0.7 0.8 range for like 10 laps.

How does this point to a car that is only quicker (in the hands of Lewis VS max I talk about) in the middle part of a stint like you say? To me it simply points to a slightly quicker car on race day. No matter what compound even.

I would be glad if the scenario you see would become reality in my eyes too but I have not seen it on normal permanent race tracks.

I had a "feeling" Max was slightly faster for the first half of the first stint, but fall off during the second half.
Lewis was much faster during the second stint, probably 0.5s faster.
Then, around lap 30 Lewis slowed down (0.5s a lap compared to Max, 1s compared to his maximum pace), presumably to save his tires.
Max continued to do 37s for couple more laps(despite earlier say he can't keep driving like that) and went to box. It seems 2nd pitstop was planned all along.
12 laps later Lewis drove his fastest lap - 37.4 on those battered tires.
http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... Verstappen

[DChemTech]

Whoa.

https://twitter.com/albertfabrega/statu ... 87940?s=21

One gets the impression that the FIA wants to quench every form of interesting competition (one way or another) with all kinds of mid-season rule changes. Shame really. They should sort out their rules properly, and instead of vague corrections via technical directives, just punish breaches.

[Sieper]

Yup. Honda in front on ICE now it seems. Only saving grace for Merc is the car seems to be gentler on its tyres in the middle of stints.

Anyone remember if tyres are a big issue in Austria? I know overtaking is easy once a tyre advantage is there, but can't remember if tyre wores are result of bad strategy or globally induced by the track characteristics.

I am going to give it one last try. Why do you say this? Last race Hamilton first stint. Max was never able to fully chase. All throughout the stint Max kept slipping back further. By about 0.1 0.2 per lap on average. To in lap 18 already the pitstop came and then it was 3.1. Not the full 5/6 seconds Hamilton always used to keep the gap it but it was also not yet lap 22/25 so at that point it could well have been (imho the gap building was slightly increasing towards the later laps in the stint.

After the first pit stop, and eventhough Merc went for just 1 Max was never coming out of the 0.7 0.8 range for like 10 laps.

How does this point to a car that is only quicker (in the hands of Lewis VS max I talk about) in the middle part of a stint like you say? To me it simply points to a slightly quicker car on race day. No matter what compound even.

I would be glad if the scenario you see would become reality in my eyes too but I have not seen it on normal permanent race tracks.

I had a "feeling" Max was slightly faster for the first half of the first stint, but fall off during the second half.
Lewis was much faster during the second stint, probably 0.5s faster.
Then, around lap 30 Lewis slowed down (0.5s a lap compared to Max, 1s compared to his maximum pace), presumably to save his tires.
Max continued to do 37s for couple more laps(despite earlier say he can't keep driving like that) and went to box. It seems 2nd pitstop was planned all along.
12 laps later Lewis drove his fastest lap - 37.4 on those battered tires.
http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page ... Verstappen

I think so too, they were going for the 2 stopper anyway. As soon as Hamilton stopped chasing Max still used his tires to get out of an undercut thread and then they went for it.

[El Scorchio]

Fully agreed. And it is also extremely hard to disregard driver performance (especially in different cars) but I was just disagreeing with PZs comparative performance analysis of both cars.

Absolutely. My view is the cars are extremely close. The RB seems a better all rounder for all conditions and less of a pain to get great laptime out of out of the box, whereas the MB is potentially (as) fast(er) if they get it right, but seems harder to extract all the performance from in different conditions with more compromise on setup. (Ironically I think that's the opposite of last year, somewhat.) Inherently better downforce (or less loss of downforce from last year) on the RB within the 2021 regs forced on both teams allows more flexibility and better switching on of the tyres.

But like the drivers, both teams are doing a blinding job.

[El Scorchio]

Whoa.

https://twitter.com/albertfabrega/statu ... 87940?s=21

What is the directive?

[MtthsMlw]

Whoa.

https://twitter.com/albertfabrega/statu ... 87940?s=21

What is the directive?

It won't be officially made public but maybe something regarding when the car can be released and how automated this process is.

[El Scorchio]

Whoa.

https://twitter.com/albertfabrega/statu ... 87940?s=21

What is the directive?

It won't be officially made public but maybe something regarding when the car can be released and how automated this process is.

Ah I see. Thanks! I can't work out whether this, then, is something they think teams might have been doing something with which has worried them, or just some sort of general safety issue.

[Sieper]

Driver aid maybe as a general basis voor outruling it, if indeed that is it.

Mercedes constantly (mis)use Hamilton to put in in the press. Wing was 0.6 second per lap. Now they could not find 0.5 second of laptime with the undercut. If they say it, it becomes true. In any case, the directive is here and within two weeks of first hearing Mercedes putting words like this in the press.

[PlatinumZealot]

Yup. Honda in front on ICE now it seems. Only saving grace for Merc is the car seems to be gentler on its tyres in the middle of stints.

Anyone remember if tyres are a big issue in Austria? I know overtaking is easy once a tyre advantage is there, but can't remember if tyre wores are result of bad strategy or globally induced by the track characteristics.

I am going to give it one last try. Why do you say this? Last race Hamilton first stint. Max was never able to fully chase. All throughout the stint Max kept slipping back further. By about 0.1 0.2 per lap on average. To in lap 18 already the pitstop came and then it was 3.1. Not the full 5/6 seconds Hamilton always used to keep the gap it but it was also not yet lap 22/25 so at that point it could well have been (imho the gap building was slightly increasing towards the later laps in the stint.

After the first pit stop, and eventhough Merc went for just 1 Max was never coming out of the 0.7 0.8 range for like 10 laps.

How does this point to a car that is only quicker (in the hands of Lewis VS max I talk about) in the middle part of a stint like you say? To me it simply points to a slightly quicker car on race day. No matter what compound even.

I would be glad if the scenario you see would become reality in my eyes too but I have not seen it on normal permanent race tracks.

I am not sure what you disagreed with. But I'm talking about what's needed to win at RedBull ring. It's a power track and Mercedes no longer have straight line advatnage so any passing will rely on who has a signficiant tyre advantage. And going by the trend of things Mercedes will start the race behind Redbull (Max at least) so that makes things even more reliant on tyre management.

[PlatinumZealot]

Ah come on! The RB is clearly faster than the Merc. Red Bull is just being held back by having mediocre drivers. Max is just made to look good by having poor teammates. We now see by the comparison to Norris that even Ricciardo was a mediocre yardstick at best. On the other hand the Merc is nowhere as good as Lewis made it look over the last years. Even the tire wear is mostly attributable to his skills, we know from the years before Lewis that the Merc was terrible on the tires.

/sarcasm

Hmm. No, forget the sarcasm... You do have a little case there. Lando could more or less be Max level or very close to it.

[Sieper]

Ah come on! The RB is clearly faster than the Merc. Red Bull is just being held back by having mediocre drivers. Max is just made to look good by having poor teammates. We now see by the comparison to Norris that even Ricciardo was a mediocre yardstick at best. On the other hand the Merc is nowhere as good as Lewis made it look over the last years. Even the tire wear is mostly attributable to his skills, we know from the years before Lewis that the Merc was terrible on the tires.

/sarcasm

Hmm. No, forget the sarcasm... You do have a little case there. Lando could more or less be Max level or very close to it.

Much better. He defeats Ricci by a wider margin.

[Sieper]

Yup. Honda in front on ICE now it seems. Only saving grace for Merc is the car seems to be gentler on its tyres in the middle of stints.

Anyone remember if tyres are a big issue in Austria? I know overtaking is easy once a tyre advantage is there, but can't remember if tyre wores are result of bad strategy or globally induced by the track characteristics.

I am going to give it one last try. Why do you say this? Last race Hamilton first stint. Max was never able to fully chase. All throughout the stint Max kept slipping back further. By about 0.1 0.2 per lap on average. To in lap 18 already the pitstop came and then it was 3.1. Not the full 5/6 seconds Hamilton always used to keep the gap it but it was also not yet lap 22/25 so at that point it could well have been (imho the gap building was slightly increasing towards the later laps in the stint.

After the first pit stop, and eventhough Merc went for just 1 Max was never coming out of the 0.7 0.8 range for like 10 laps.

How does this point to a car that is only quicker (in the hands of Lewis VS max I talk about) in the middle part of a stint like you say? To me it simply points to a slightly quicker car on race day. No matter what compound even.

I would be glad if the scenario you see would become reality in my eyes too but I have not seen it on normal permanent race tracks.

I am not sure what you disagreed with. But I'm talking about what's needed to win at RedBull ring. It's a power track and Mercedes no longer have straight line advatnage so any passing will rely on who has a signficiant tyre advantage. And going by the trend of things Mercedes will start the race behind Redbull (Max at least) so that makes things even more reliant on tyre management.

No longer? Merc ran an enormous rear wing at Paul Ricard. Redbull a very slim one. How much of the top speed difference can attributed to that. Part, all, or even more? In the Merc thread you wrote that Merc still had that excellent PU to depend on. And I agree.

[Capharol]

What is the directive?

It won't be officially made public but maybe something regarding when the car can be released and how automated this process is.

Ah I see. Thanks! I can't work out whether this, then, is something they think teams might have been doing something with which has worried them, or just some sort of general safety issue.

as i understood this TD counts as of Hungary GP and is there to prevent "unsafe release" but thats all still a rumour really. (the part that it counts for Hungary GP)