2022 budget cap violations

[chrisc90]

Merc, Macca and Ferrari are leading the way on bringing new stuff.

Macca and Ferrari have new floors. As do Aston Martin. It's the biggest and most invested upgrade.

Red Bull are not restrained from producing updates by the penalty, they still run the same budget cap as others. When you have won 10 out of 10 races, you don't have the same pressure to bring updates and can push a sizable portion of the budget to 2024's car.

Not to mention the fact it means they are made to work more efficiently. Ensuring the designs are optimum before running them through CFD or making scale models to put in the wind tunnel.

Whilst at a disadvantage of not having loads of runs - it makes RB work more efficiently and effectively. It’s no longer throwing a design through the computer to see if it’s feasible or not

[Just_a_fan]

I also hope our members are mature enough to not argue such a huge penalty if enforced on their favorite team if that is at the crosshairs, by comparing to how lenient the penalty was on Red Bull.
If it is Red Bull again, I think they should be disqualified for 2 seasons.

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I would say disqualify them for ever!!

I think he's being facetious.

However, would you agree that breaching the cost cap two years in a row, especially when the team doing it is significantly quicker than all the others (which might be because they breached the cost cap), needs something more than just a light slap on the wrists? A fine of a few million dollars sounds a lot to you and me but to a rich team it's small change.

A meaningful penalty is required or the cost cap should just be forgotten about and we go back to "spend what you can afford".

[organic]

It's quite possible that all of the breaches for 2022 year are procedural. Before all of the news came out it was suggested that 2 teams had breached the budget cap, but Aston martin ended up being just a procedural error.

[Just_a_fan]

Whether or not RB made the mistake on purpose, or whether it was accidental, we will never know. However, that isn’t the point.

The rules have to be applied equally and fairly. Would it be fair to give say Ferrari, AMr, Mercedes less penalty for a similar breach (as redbull in 2021). If they only got a telling off and say no wind tunnel penalty, do you think Red Bull will be happy with 2 different punishments for the same breach of the rules? I think not

Agreed. The penalty has to be fairly applied. So a first offence should be similar to Red Bull's penalty from last year. However, a repeat offence must be harshly penalised - if not, the rich teams will just say "we can afford to overspend every year as the penalty isn't that large", and at that point the cost cap dies.

[Just_a_fan]

It's quite possible that all of the breaches for 2022 year are procedural. Before all of the news came out it was suggested that 2 teams had breached the budget cap, but Aston martin ended up being just a procedural error.

Indeed so. Procedural breaches aren't that important, really, which is why a fine is applied and everyone moves on. Unless, of course, the procedural breach allows a team to overspend and hide it it. Then it's a very serious problem.

[ValeVida46]

It's quite possible that all of the breaches for 2022 year are procedural. Before all of the news came out it was suggested that 2 teams had breached the budget cap, but Aston martin ended up being just a procedural error.

Indeed so. Procedural breaches aren't that important, really, which is why a fine is applied and everyone moves on. Unless, of course, the procedural breach allows a team to overspend and hide it it. Then it's a very serious problem.

And I can almost guarantee we will never find out as there is almost zero transparency

[Just_a_fan]

It's quite possible that all of the breaches for 2022 year are procedural. Before all of the news came out it was suggested that 2 teams had breached the budget cap, but Aston martin ended up being just a procedural error.

Indeed so. Procedural breaches aren't that important, really, which is why a fine is applied and everyone moves on. Unless, of course, the procedural breach allows a team to overspend and hide it it. Then it's a very serious problem.

And I can almost guarantee we will never find out as there is almost zero transparency

That's always going to be an issue where corporate finance is concerned. No way any large company is going to allow their competitors to see every line in their accounts. And no way the FIA would be able to force them to. No team would stand for it and so the FIA can't afford to make it a "die on that hill" issue - they'll lose.

[Cs98]

Merc, Macca and Ferrari are leading the way on bringing new stuff.

Macca and Ferrari have new floors. As do Aston Martin. It's the biggest and most invested upgrade.

Red Bull are not restrained from producing updates by the penalty, they still run the same budget cap as others. When you have won 10 out of 10 races, you don't have the same pressure to bring updates and can push a sizable portion of the budget to 2024's car.

Not restrained, but limited and slowed down. They basically can't afford to miss the mark with anything because they don't have the WT time ro rectify a wrong turn. Best case scenario the development goes in the right direction but just at a reduced pace (happening currently), worst case scenario they bring something which has an unwanted effect and they are in trouble.

[Big Tea]

Maybe we should at least study the actuality before calling for burning at the stake. Which ever team it is could easily have fallen into the inflation trap which is a different kettle to a deliberate or careless overspend. While I think it should be policed to a definite (non negatable) limit, the case of being caught out is not the same as trying to get away with it, so should have a different outcome. (but still punished)

[Willy]

I also hope our members are mature enough to not argue such a huge penalty if enforced on their favorite team if that is at the crosshairs, by comparing to how lenient the penalty was on Red Bull.
If it is Red Bull again, I think they should be disqualified for 2 seasons.

.
I would say disqualify them for ever!!

I think he's being facetious.

However, would you agree that breaching the cost cap two years in a row, especially when the team doing it is significantly quicker than all the others (which might be because they breached the cost cap), needs something more than just a light slap on the wrists? A fine of a few million dollars sounds a lot to you and me but to a rich team it's small change.

A meaningful penalty is required or the cost cap should just be forgotten about and we go back to "spend what you can afford".

Red Bull is doing well because of cost cap breach is nonsense. There is no doubt they did a better job than others.

I am sure you wouldn't agree for a stronger punishment for Lewis in Silverstone 2021 for causing massive damage to Max's car, beyond what the governing framework rules that doesn't take into account the effect, but just the cause. But then Lewis' error forced loss of components and subsequent penalty for Max of using extra engine. If effect is not considered then, why in case of cost cap breach?

[AMG.Tzan]

Question is what did the FIA find in terms of teams spending outside of the F1 business!

Red Bull for example is developing a road car the RB17 which basically is a Valkyrie all over again since Newey designed both! I mean there's no point in developing the same car twice so it sounds a bit interesting! Not to mention the timing of development! Anyway, time will tell...

A lot of you are talking about this year's upgrades! It doesn't really matter since we're talking about last year's budget cap! I remember last year a certain team being ready to bring a lightweight chassis! I find this interesting too since Mercedes has been saying since the start of the season that it's impossible under the budget cap to develop a new chassis...

Alpine, Aston Martin and Mclaren brought a lot of updates last year if I remember correctly! So my bet would be at least one of those 3! It will be interesting to see how much they spent over the budget too, though a 7% development penalty won't hurt anyone really...

[Wouter]

I would say disqualify them for ever!!

.
I think he's being facetious.

However, would you agree that breaching the cost cap two years in a row, especially when the team doing it is significantly quicker than all the others (which might be because they breached the cost cap), needs something more than just a light slap on the wrists? A fine of a few million dollars sounds a lot to you and me but to a rich team it's small change.

A meaningful penalty is required or the cost cap should just be forgotten about and we go back to "spend what you can afford".

.
Now that I read it again I think @Willy is indeed being sarcastic. Stupid me.
I will not argue with you about the BC because I know how you as a Mercedes/Lewis fan feel about RBR and their violation of the BC.
"... a light slap on the wrists." and ".... especially when the team doing it is significantly quicker than all the others (which might be because they breached the cost cap)."

[SiLo]

Wouldnt surprise me if it was mostly UK based teams because of inflation, energy and shipping costs etc.

Everyone except Ferrari then?

Aren't AT based in Faenza?

Considering Toto is a finance guy, it would surprise me if Mercedes breach the cap. Aston and McLaren would be my guesses.

[Wouter]

I think he's being facetious.

However, would you agree that breaching the cost cap two years in a row, especially when the team doing it is significantly quicker than all the others (which might be because they breached the cost cap), needs something more than just a light slap on the wrists? A fine of a few million dollars sounds a lot to you and me but to a rich team it's small change.

A meaningful penalty is required or the cost cap should just be forgotten about and we go back to "spend what you can afford".

Red Bull is doing well because of cost cap breach is nonsense. There is no doubt they did a better job than others.

I am sure you wouldn't agree for a stronger punishment for Lewis in Silverstone 2021 for causing massive damage to Max's car, beyond what the governing framework rules that doesn't take into account the effect, but just the cause. But then Lewis' error forced loss of components and subsequent penalty for Max of using extra engine. If effect is not considered then, why in case of cost cap breach?

Precisely! Sorry I misunderstood you.

[rbirules]

Here's an estimate of repair costs for 2022 by driver and team done by somebody on reddit. I don't expect the values to be precisely correct but they use a standard cost per part and apply it to all repairs, so it should give us a rough estimate.



2022 estimated team repair costs:
Williams - $4.7M
Haas - $4.5M
Aston Martin - $4.3M
Ferrari - $4.1M
Mercedes - $4.0M
Alpine - $3.5M
Alfa Romeo - $3.4M
Alpha Tauri - $2.5M
Red Bull - $1.6M
McLaren - $1.5M

AM, Merc, and Ferrari are all around $2.5M more than RB, Alpine is about $2.0M more than RB. McLaren right in line with RB. If inflation ate up a lot of the buffer teams had in their budget maybe higher repair costs could put them over the limit?

Just another thing to consider along with upgrades that were brought during the 2022 season.