Le Mans 24 hours 2009

[dumrick]

Any bets anyone?

For sure, the safe bet is Audi

However, the story is far from told, for various reasons:
- Peugeot is a better organized team since the arrival of Oliver Quesnel and (obviously) more experienced than last year;
- the relative speeds from car to car are, in a sport that still nurtures differences in design from car to car, track dependent. The layout of the Peugeot (coupe and low-downforce concepts) may suit Le Mans better than Sebring;
- the team experience with a car is a major factor in endurance and this may be the first Le Mans edition where a new Audi has fierce competition;
- there are 24 hours of racing and everything may still happen (and a lot always happens at Le Mans).

So, it will be another great edition and one I hope I don't miss a second. If I was to bet, it would be on the #1 Audi, however...

A nice printable vehicle start list from Endurance-Info can be found here

[wesley123]

Audi is definately your best bet, if everything goed well they fear no concurence from peugeot. But being fast is not all, that is what peugeot proved alst year, they were bloody fast in qualifieing but in the race they lost it.

[modbaraban]

I'm not at all sure it'll be easy for Audi.

It's a shame that non-diesel cars aren't in the battle for the win With all the respect to both manufacturers and their drivers, I hate to see a Transit-van-sounding car to win. Especially when those epic Lola-Astons are on the grid. Their look is just as good as the sound. And the sound is as good as it gets

I'll definitely cheer for:
1. Lola-Aston Martin (preferably #008)
2. Other pertol cars
3. Pescarolo Peugeot 908 #17
4. Peugeot #9
99999 (dead last). Kolles (never liked that guy)

LMP2: Lola-mazda & Ginetta-Zytek
GT1: Jetalliance DBR9, if not, then Luc Alphand vettes
GT2: Drayson V8 Vantage, Spyker.


For some reason almost none of the favorites won my heart.

[dumrick]

It's a shame that non-diesel cars aren't in the battle for the win With all the respect to both manufacturers and their drivers, I hate to see a Transit-van-sounding car to win. Especially when those epic Lola-Astons are on the grid. Their look is just as good as the sound. And the sound is as good as it gets

There's still an issue concerning Petrol-Diesel equivalence, that's for sure.

But, there's no point about comparing the Diesel runners with the Lola-Astons. It's curious to see that I've the complete opposite impression about the Lola-Astons looks: I really think that, trying to give an AM look to the chassis, they have made one very odd-looking car. Furthermore, it seems that they lack seriousness and professionalism in their approach:

- in place of a bespoke chassis, designed to tackle the technical issues involved in fitting the high and heavy V12 (that benefits from a larger restritor than a race engine, so could be the answer to the "lack of equivalence issues"), they've simply changed the back of Lolas B08/60 - Audi has undergone a big design program to solve a similar issue with the weight of the Diesel engine and adopted pretty impressive solutions in the R15;

- externally, they've just tried to give the Aston-Martin looks to the bodywork. It is rumoured that their wind tunnel program had the simple purpose of making sure the changes didn't damaged the aero;

- their driver line-up for the LMS is a joke (only in less extent than Kolles). They have realized it, however, and took special care with the drivers chosen for Le Mans, even replaced Miguel Ramos. However, their LM line-up still can't hold the comparation with the other works entries and even, in my opinion, with Pescarolo's or Oreca's.

Apparently, the ACO had promised Mr. Richards to give Aston a fighting chance for the overall win (therefore the laughable announcement of the program, where they claimed that they were going to celebrate the 50th anniversary of their win at LM with a new win), but would that really be fair, given their amateurish approach?
Who I really feel bad for is Pescarolo or Oreca, that are really pushing technically, have excellent drivers and have less chances than Aston, because of their big restritor.

I'm not at all sure it'll be easy for Audi.

Me neither. I think the simplistic approach of saying that the R15 is faster than the R10 and therefore will win with more ease is only justifiable from people that can't grasp the amazing complexity of endurance racing, including the importance of knowing the car, its pluses and its minuses, it's repairability, how easy it is to drive it to allow all drivers to be consistent, how it drives around in traffic, the visibity on different weather, with low sun, at night time, the importance of saving fuel, tyres, brakes, and so on, and so on... these are some car-dependent variables that have to be considered and that may condition the final results.

This said, I would be an happy guy with a Peugeot win (mainly if it was the #7, because of Lamy) or if a Porsche won GT2. Or with some great results from a portuguese driver or team. Or if a Corvette didn't win GT1. Or with any non-Audi win - I'm fed up with both of them winning constantly in recent times. What the hell, I'll be happy anyway only by having the opportunity to follow the best race in the world this weekend!

[West]

Why does GT1 get smaller every year? Sounds like a sure win for Corvette, but kind of empty. Maybe once the factory teams leave GT1 we can see it populate again.

I hope Flying Lizard brings home all the glory in GT2.

I hope Peugeot take it all. Three entries from Team Peugeot Total; last year it was two I think and one from Peugeot Total Sport, from which I couldn't tell the difference. Third time's the charm...

[modbaraban]

I really think that, trying to give an AM look to the chassis, they have made one very odd-looking car.

Odd? That's actually how prototypes are supposed to look.


See my point?

- in place of a bespoke chassis, designed to tackle the technical issues involved in fitting the high and heavy V12 (that benefits from a larger restritor than a race engine, so could be the answer to the "lack of equivalence issues"), they've simply changed the back of Lolas B08/60

What makes you think they've changed the back to the worse solution? Let the #13 08-spec Lola prove them wrong.

- externally, they've just tried to give the Aston-Martin looks to the bodywork. It is rumoured that their wind tunnel program had the simple purpose of making sure the changes didn't damaged the aero

Again what makes you think that? It's like some say that his nipples are exactly the shape of the outlines of the Nurburgring, but all we know is...
'It is rumoured' is hardly an argument.

but would that really be fair, given their amateurish approach?

I'm struggling to recall anyone ever calling Prodrive amateurish. They may be way behind the Audi and Peugeot, but that doesn't make them amateurish.

Besides there were Le Mans winning cars that were developed with that 'amateurish' road-relevant styling

Yes, there were faster cars that year, like the Merc-ishly styled Mercedes. It ended up flying off the track though.

Drivers:
Darren Turner won LM24 '05 in GT1
Harold Primat raced for Pescarolo

In the Le Mans 24 Hours, he finished a to-date best of seventh and first of the unoffical 'petrol' class

Jos Verstappen won LM24 '08 in P2
Peter Cox didn't do too badly in GT1, AFAIK.
Anthony Davidson seems to have no sportscar experience at all but we know he's good. At least he was very close to the most complete driver on the (current F1) grid!!! I don't know much about Stuart Hall (FIA GT? GT3?)

AMR should have signed Brabs though before Peugeot made their offer. Anyway the list is not too bad, imo. Although I'd go for more experienced guys. To match Audi's or Peugeot's line up AMR would have to lure the drivers out of the diesel cars.


PS: can anynoe tell why AMR launched their GT2 car with basically no factory support? Is mr Drayson going to develop it?

[dumrick]

That's actually how prototypes are supposed to look.

Discussing looks (be it women's or car's) never resulted in any conclusion, I guess

What makes you think they've changed the back to the worse solution? Let the #13 08-spec Lola prove them wrong.

My point was that integrating a heavy, high engine messes up big time with your CG placement. The way to deal with it is to conceive the vehicle around it, placing your componentry to compensate and designing the suspensions around those constraints. The Lola-Aston has recognized oversteering problems, arising from the limitations AMR has placed upon themselves, by trying to go the "easier" route.

'It is rumoured' is hardly an argument.

That's true, although it were recognized experts like Mike Fuller suggesting it.

I'm struggling to recall anyone ever calling Prodrive amateurish. They may be way behind the Audi and Peugeot, but that doesn't make them amateurish.

They don't show more professionalism than Oreca or Pescarolo that invest in making their own chassis and in getting experienced and fast driver line-ups.

Concerning the drivers, I've written that their latest acquisitions seem to try to correct their early decisions. However, Kox will make its debut in prototype at Le Mans, just like Davidson, Enge seems to crash cars a bit too much for an endurance driver and Charouz is a competent gentleman driver at best. Turner, Primat or Verstappen sound like good choices, but it is paramount at Le Mans to have balanced line-ups, and AM's doesn't sound that balanced, in the end.

[dumrick]

Breaking news: after rumours that they could retire from the race after the declaration of conformity of the Audi R15s in Le Mans trim, Peugeot reserves their right to protest to the ACO and, in case it is not accepted, to the FIA. Details here.

[sstanescu]

Sad to see more and more "motion" in various leagues (see F1, WTCC, now LM). It is suppose to have big guys in charge, not kids, capable of sorting out technical issues well before the competition.

Still, hoping for the big fight (I'm personally an Audi fan but this year I have the feeling the table is going to be turned for Peugeot) grab the A3 (or larger) good for printing list: http://www.spotterguides.com/

[RacingManiac]

Calling Prodrive amatuer is a bit much, though their approach does seem to be more marketing driven than true engineering work compare to their previous excellent effort in just about all the other sport they took part in. I was a bit disappointed with the relatively little amount that was changed to the stock Lola, compare to say Acura's effort in ALMS to the Courage, or even Oreca and Pescarolo's effort to the Courage. While Lola is an excellent chassis to start, and arguable probably the best pure customer chassis out there, you would think they would do more, given Prodrive's expertise and their relatiely compromised package to start with. Of course the rather public fall-out between them and Lola in calling the car an Aston without paying Lola the proper due(either in fund to buy the homologationg right, or actually giving credit) in actually making majority of the car is making them look worse for those that are in the know. For the public, Gulf color, sleek coupe, evocative manufacturer name(which really, is just a name), makes them the favorite amongst the general population....


The whole Audi being illegal business, thats the competitors being caught with their pants down. Much like the DDD row in F1(albeit much more niche, and I think the wording is much more clear in this case). If one think someone can design a car with such "radical" features without prior consultation to the governing body? They are smoking who knows what too much. The belief is that Peugeot(who at the moment no one has seen their Le Mans 09 guise) has a Audi-esque nose ready, while Prodrive being the "hey look at me I am a manufacturer" type is voicing the complaint just to gang up on Audi. Realistically even the Dome was a better car than that Lola Aston, and I wouldn't be at all surprise if we were to see it again it will be different than their last appearance.

As for who will win, my money is on the Audi. While R15 has arguably the shortest development time compare to the previous car, knowing how well oiled that German racing machine known as Audi Sport is, they will be prepared, as usual. If Peugeot had a tough time beating a much older, slower car, imagine what a "new hotness" will do....

[dumrick]

The belief is that Peugeot(who at the moment no one has seen their Le Mans 09 guise) has a Audi-esque nose ready

Actually, the Pugs have already today gone through scrutineering and their promised new front aerodynamics consists in a steeper diffuser in the front, making the radiators to be fed by its underside. I recall a recent interview where it was mentioned this change was also driven by the need to prevent dirt from coming into the radiators, a problem that has affected them in the past 2 years.

Photos are available here.

It appears that below the raised nose there's now a lateral splitter, making the shape of the nose rather obsolete (it seems that, if they could redesign it, they would go for a low nose, since no air is feeding the underbody from under the nose, anyway):

[RacingManiac]

strange that they went that route since that was pretty common for older cars to feed through the underside....I wonder if that necessitate any changes downstream of it...

I am sure they avoided changing the nose so that the don't have to re-do crash test...

[dumrick]

Actually, it seems that the "fashion" is changing every year. The Oreca 01 has also reverted to this concept, although last year's car had a channel between the splitter and the top wishbones. The original Courage fed radiators this way...

[modbaraban]

I'm very curious how will Pescarolo 908 perform against the factory diesels. Is it the same spec as the factory cars?

They don't show more professionalism than Oreca or Pescarolo that invest in making their own chassis and in getting experienced and fast driver line-ups.

I rate the professionalism of Oreca or Pescarolo very high. Those would be the teams to cooperate with for any new manufacturers getting into LM.

[wesley123]

I thought Peugeot was focussing on the 909 and stopped the development of the 908, I guess they really want to win this one.