2010 regulation row on £40m budget cap

[noname]

(...) I doubt that the budget cap will be increased any more. There are prospective teams wanting to get into Formula One, and if the budget ceiling is changed, some of those teams just may find that their business model does not make sense anymore.

there is a long way to go between making decision of becoming an F1 team and being ready to put the cars on the grid (as an example - Toyota spent a whole year just testing its car).

I do not think if any new team (new, not the one who bought existing team) would be ready to join F1 next year. that means that if some of existing teams will decide to leave the party, 2010 grid may look almost like the one we've seen on Indy few years ago, when there was an "issue" with Michelins.

[Afterburner]

Ferrari isn't bluffing, ferrari, redbull, mclaren, renault, toyota and bmw all have the power and resources to make their own championship together or can compete in Le Mans Series with audi and peugeot, there are plenty of options for them. Who wouldn't see a championship with the last 3 world f1 champions? Ferrari even has got A1GP to sell their brand... My guess is that rules will be almost the same has this year except for kers, ferrari has a great weight on f1 or it wasn't paid has it is by uncle Bernie. At least 40% of crowds are ferrari fans, even when they weren't winning on the past it was the same thing, who says circuit crowds says tv share.

[donskar]

(...) I doubt that the budget cap will be increased any more. There are prospective teams wanting to get into Formula One, and if the budget ceiling is changed, some of those teams just may find that their business model does not make sense anymore.

there is a long way to go between making decision of becoming an F1 team and being ready to put the cars on the grid (as an example - Toyota spent a whole year just testing its car).

I do not think if any new team (new, not the one who bought existing team) would be ready to join F1 next year. that means that if some of existing teams will decide to leave the party, 2010 grid may look almost like the one we've seen on Indy few years ago, when there was an "issue" with Michelins.

Trying to keep score: it appears four teams have said (or suggested) they will not compete under the proposed budget. Giving credit where it is due, Ferrari's announcement followed Toyota, BMW, and RBR, right?:

The Red Bull Racing team joins Toyota and BMW Sauber by threatening to not participate in the 2010 Formula One World Championship, should the FIA go through with the proposed regulation changes.

Do any of you really think there will be FOUR new teams on the grid next year? We all poke fun at USF1 (and they deserve it), but has any other proposed team shown more concrete progress?

[ISLAMATRON]

Big motorhomes dont make you faster so who cares how much the teams spend on them.

Moneywise I dont care how much the teams spend on motorhomes... I doubt Super Aguri had a lavish one, but they still couldn't stay on the grid. expenditures outside the car dont need to be regulated at all, if the rich teams want to spen their money on it then let them. The FIA has it all right, cap how much is spent on the car so all teams can compete, not just the ones with 2 thousand dollar wheelnuts.

The FIA has already made a huge concession on engine costs and driver costs.

To hell with Ferrari, why the hell cant they operate under 40 Mil Euro? That doesnt include Engines or Drivers or motorhomes or food or any of that other entertainment stuff. Huge advantage their mega bucks are giving them this year.

I understand they might have to fire a large number of staff... or with all the extra money they could move them over to a LE mans effort that would be funded from the left over F1 money they save.

Ferrari simply know they cannot win through shear ingenuity, so their only hope is to outspend all the other teams.

[Scotracer]

You think Ferrari would be pleased with the unlimited testing as they have their own back-yard circuit. You can't please some people...

[Conceptual]

It will only be a 2 tier championship if the teams don't all get on board with the $40M cap.

Here we are, on the brink of the most technological de-regulation in modern F1, and people are stomping their feet the entire way.

Ferrari apparently only want to be in F1 if they are dominant, and as many have pointed out, it would make their intelligence and their ingenuity lead the way instead of their checkbook.

Maybe Ferrari just are not confident that they have the right minds in place to compete on an even cost playing field?

Otherwise, one would think that the AWD, unlimited engines, adaptive aero with 160hp KERS and slicks would be a huge draw for all of the teams.

I hope Ferrari stay on board, but I will not feel bad if they choose to go. It has been nice seeing someone other than Ferrari, McLaren and Renault winning this season, and I hope that innovation on a budget wins against infinite refinement with infinite resources.

Does anyone think that it is NOT possible to build bleeding edge cars for $40M/yr?

[ISLAMATRON]

You think Ferrari would be pleased with the unlimited testing as they have their own back-yard circuit. You can't please some people...

especially when all the other teams would have pay out of their 40 mil for track costs while they dont.

40 mil plus the 50 mil they pay for drivers already plus engines not included in the cap plus all the entertainment they put out now adds up almost to what they spend already.... they are just complaining like bitches... or they dont have the vision to see the possibility of anything other than the status quo.

[sticky667]

I understand they might have to fire a large number of staff... or with all the extra money they could move them over to a LE mans effort that would be funded from the left over F1 money they save.

Ferrari simply know they cannot win through shear ingenuity, so their only hope is to outspend all the other teams.

you are absolutely right! look at ALMS, the only real competition is Porsche. Panoz, BMW and the american boys are just taking up grid slots. seems they can only win by cheating in a sport (F1) where they have all the political power. otherwise, they are the next joe schmoe indie team trying to win fair and square! boo hoo!!

they have quite a few entries and 9 wins at 24 hrs du Mans over 60 yrs. not exactly impressive for a team of Ferrari caliber.

[Scotracer]

It will only be a 2 tier championship if the teams don't all get on board with the $40M cap.

Here we are, on the brink of the most technological de-regulation in modern F1, and people are stomping their feet the entire way.

Ferrari apparently only want to be in F1 if they are dominant, and as many have pointed out, it would make their intelligence and their ingenuity lead the way instead of their checkbook.

Maybe Ferrari just are not confident that they have the right minds in place to compete on an even cost playing field?

Otherwise, one would think that the AWD, unlimited engines, adaptive aero with 160hp KERS and slicks would be a huge draw for all of the teams.

I hope Ferrari stay on board, but I will not feel bad if they choose to go. It has been nice seeing someone other than Ferrari, McLaren and Renault winning this season, and I hope that innovation on a budget wins against infinite refinement with infinite resources.

Does anyone think that it is NOT possible to build bleeding edge cars for $40M/yr?

And that's EXACTLY what the FIA intended on happening when they made up the budget cap.

Oh and it's £40M not $40M - it's 50% more

[Richard]

The many fans that became Ferrari fans because they won all the time will just jump to the next front runner.

At least 40% of crowds are ferrari fans, even when they weren't winning on the past it was the same thing, who says circuit crowds says tv share.

Since when have the fans been a factor? Nowadays it is all about states purchasing a franchise from Bernie. Hence the empy stands in China & Bahrain circuits whilst sell out circuits in Europe are told to get lost.

[ISLAMATRON]

Spa hasnt sold out in years

[Conceptual]

Spa hasnt sold out in years

For the racing that track has produced over the years, that is quite a surprise.

Is it infrastructure? Seating, parking, airport limited?

I just can't fathom Spa not selling out within minutes of going on sale... What is the cause for that do you think?

[Conceptual]

It will only be a 2 tier championship if the teams don't all get on board with the $40M cap.

Here we are, on the brink of the most technological de-regulation in modern F1, and people are stomping their feet the entire way.

Ferrari apparently only want to be in F1 if they are dominant, and as many have pointed out, it would make their intelligence and their ingenuity lead the way instead of their checkbook.

Maybe Ferrari just are not confident that they have the right minds in place to compete on an even cost playing field?

Otherwise, one would think that the AWD, unlimited engines, adaptive aero with 160hp KERS and slicks would be a huge draw for all of the teams.

I hope Ferrari stay on board, but I will not feel bad if they choose to go. It has been nice seeing someone other than Ferrari, McLaren and Renault winning this season, and I hope that innovation on a budget wins against infinite refinement with infinite resources.

Does anyone think that it is NOT possible to build bleeding edge cars for $40M/yr?

And that's EXACTLY what the FIA intended on happening when they made up the budget cap.

Oh and it's £40M not $40M - it's 50% more

I understand that, but I don't know where the "pound" key is on my US keyboard, and I'm too lazy to dig up the ASCII number! :-Þ

[PitEntryGravelTrap]

I understand they might have to fire a large number of staff... or with all the extra money they could move them over to a LE mans effort that would be funded from the left over F1 money they save.

Ferrari simply know they cannot win through shear ingenuity, so their only hope is to outspend all the other teams.

you are absolutely right! look at ALMS, the only real competition is Porsche. Panoz, BMW and the american boys are just taking up grid slots. seems they can only win by cheating in a sport (F1) where they have all the political power. otherwise, they are the next joe schmoe indie team trying to win fair and square! boo hoo!!

they have quite a few entries and 9 wins at 24 hrs du Mans over 60 yrs. not exactly impressive for a team of Ferrari caliber.

Ferrari hasn't entered a full factory team in Le Mans since 1973(the year they pulled all factory support for Sports Car racing), they won Le Mans 9 times from 1949-1973. They werent involved in Le mans for 60 consecutive years like they have been in formula 1. Those 9 wins are second only to Porsche and will probably be tied by Audi this year.

[ISLAMATRON]

Spa hasnt sold out in years

For the racing that track has produced over the years, that is quite a surprise.

Is it infrastructure? Seating, parking, airport limited?

I just can't fathom Spa not selling out within minutes of going on sale... What is the cause for that do you think?

I know ticket prices being outrageous could be part of it. But then again maybe they just cant sell all the GA tix hey want to.