Replacing fossil fuels

[ISLAMATRON]

Alot of misconceptions in this thread... Bio-fuel does not have to come from food stocks it can come from agro waste, grass clippings, my morning bowel movement, and I'm sure autogyro has created the technology to turn Andrew's posts into fuel as well since they are weapons grade crap(again me attacking the post not the poster).

Ethanol is not the answer because it cannot be shipped efficiently, very difficult to pump through a pipeline, and does not do well in underground tanks such as gas stations have. Plus it is very inefficient to produce, and downright develish to make from foodstocks for people to drive while millions die of hunger.

Iso-butanal seems like an interesting possibility, it can be made from a number of waste sources... Chemical energy recovery(CERS), it is compatible with the inferstructure already in use such as pipelines and fuel tanks and has great energy density.

Hydrogen is not even an option unless it can be made cheaply and effieciently, and it cannot until the solar inferstucter is built up.

On the electrical side nuclear is definatly one way to go, the French are leading the way, but solar must be pushed forward to take a leading role. Coal must be taken out of the equation

J.E.T, you are wrong to say the culture in Africa is only for subsistance farming, Africa has been feeding the world for thousands of years before colonialism.... you think that the people would rather starve than farm? Of course the white farm owners could make huge surplus of food stealing the land and using slave labor, getting cheap loans and sweet deals from the agro-companies. The situation is much different now and people like Mugabe are not the problem, SA is having the same problems even though Mandela basically put his people into economic aparthied. It is a problem left over from colonialism and white supremecy... the responsibility must be place exactly there and nowhere else.

[autogyro]

It all stems from the control the criminal world system has over development.

So am.... is there a timetable, or a rota system or something im missing here? Because every day it seems its something else thats solely to blame for all the worlds problems..... in your mind anyway

The world does not have a problem.

[xpensive]

J.E.T, you are wrong to say the culture in Africa is only for subsistance farming, Africa has been feeding the world for thousands of years before colonialism.... you think that the people would rather starve than farm? Of course the white farm owners could make huge surplus of food stealing the land and using slave labor, getting cheap loans and sweet deals from the agro-companies. The situation is much different now and people like Mugabe are not the problem, SA is having the same problems even though Mandela basically put his people into economic aparthied. It is a problem left over from colonialism and white supremecy... the responsibility must be place exactly there and nowhere else.

Robert Mugabe is not the problem in Zimbabwe? You are truly something else IT, Good Lord, how ethnically-blind can you get?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Xpensive +1

Islamatron, you ought to go to the places you speak of. You blaming colonialisation and white supremacy is I'm sorry to say,the typical response of someone who knows little of the problem.

In the 1970's Zimbabwe was feeding Itself Botswana Namibia Zambia and even exporting vast quantaties of Tobacco to the west. Thats not even discussing its mineral wealth. Today it starves, and what does Mugabe do after 30 years of power? Blames the white man.

30 years not enough time? And how was africa feeding the world thousands of years before colonialism? Thats just fallacy.
As for the stealing of land argument, the land was unused or uncultivated when these settlers arrived, you wouldnt know this because this is part of my education growing up.
Secondly rural Zulu and Xhosa peoples of africa are a subsistence people so is 95% of subsaharan africa.

South Africa will go the same way, because of resource mismanagement.
This is in no way a racial issue, but a cultural one.

There are many black south africans that can do a brilliant job, but because of the "old boys" system of doing things in Southern Africa, these people are side lined as trouble makers intending to upset the apple cart.

So what happens is people in power grow complacent, as they become "unsackable".
A shining example of African resource mismanagement comes from a certain Julius Malema
. He is the ANC(african national congress) youth leader, and he was tendering contracts on behalf of the government for Land and Mineral rights.
Guess who he sold it to? Yup, you guessed it.... himself.

So what happens to the land? Well he profits from the sale of minerals and food stocks, but what does he do with the dividends?
Pockets them naturally.
So after 4 years his business has been bled dry, no new equipment or improvements made in this time. Productivity has dropped to the point of it not been commercially viable, so what does he do?

Blames the white man for their greed(price of minerals and foodstuffs tumbled).

These empowered people, are using very strong rhetoric like "kill the white man, kill the boer(white farmers)" because their "struggle" against "oppression" has only started!

This may be deemed offtopic, but if we are to even consider bio-fuels in the longterm then the world needs a fully functional Africa. If we in the west dont do our homework, many millions of Africans will die due to our most precious of resources (food and water) being consumed on a level that will create mass starvation through out the continent.

From the examples I have given of my own country, a fully functional africa is some way off even in the most advanced country within Africa.

So to surmise, this is not about black or white or pink or blue. This is about education, and now that everything has come easy to the elite ruling class, they care more for themselves than they do for the country, and until this problem is sorted Africa will always stall.
Until the day this is sorted, forget about bio fuels.

[xpensive]

My sentiments precisely JET, wonder if anyone can name a fully functional country an thae entire continent,
when winner takes all seems to be the name of the game?

[machin]

So the agenda for road traffic should include


improve combustion efficiency of ICE
avoid throttling losses
improve efficiency of power train
reclaim brake energy (KERS)
reclaim exhaust energy (turbo)
reclaim heat energy by secondary thermodynamic process
reduce vehicle weight
reduce aerodynamic drag
improve vehicle occupancy
avoid unnecessary traffic
reduce unnecessary speed

Also I'd add down-sizing of vehicles where possible... (nice and easy to achieve the weight and drag reductions that way too...)

[andrew]

Add to your list, capping engine size at say 2 ltrs. No one needs an engine bigger than that for everyday use. Also, set minimum miles per gallon targets at something like 30 - 35 miles per gallon.

Big engines are nice but man to the drink heavily!

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Turbos are essential, as is fuel limits.

Give the teams a 100 litre limit to complete the race and see how it goes.
Reduce the figure by 10% every year, then we will have an F1 keeping up with the times.

[ISLAMATRON]

...

...

Zimbabe did not feed itself or those other countries in the 70's, Zimbabwe's people still suffered starvation, the profits only saw the white farmers pockets.

Yes I sure they taught you history from a very fair and balanced perspective in that all white school you attended.

[mx_tifoso]

There are going to be a lot of lost posts if this thread does not straighten up. While some may want to justify discussing racial and political agendas in a thread dedicated to the replacement of fossil fuels it will not be tolerated since it will only lead to inappropriate debates which do not pertain to nor have any place in a Formula One message board.

Apartheid and Africa "food supplies and feeding of the world" are not on topic, despite some people believing that they are, especially since the views expressed are not in relation to the fuel issues.

Discuss fuel related subjects otherwise we'll have to clean this place up.

[xpensive]

Ooops, here's the mod, better shape up.

Is it obvious for everyone that a TC-ICE is more efficient than an Atmo-ICE, BMW don't seem to think so anyway?

[WhiteBlue]

Is it obvious for everyone that a TC-ICE is more efficient than an Atmo-ICE, BMW don't seem to think so anyway?

source please?


A turbo uses exhaust gas energy that otherwise would not be used to compress the feed air. Logic would suggest that this necessarily would improve efficiency. This also is the reason that turbos are a lot more popular than mechanical compressors although they are more difficult to design for a smooth power delivery.

[xpensive]

Need no source for that, how many gasoline-TC's is BMW marketing as we speak?

[autogyro]

Give me the budget and I would develop a Wankel rotary with exhaust turbo generator feeding the electric storage of an intigral zero torque multi stepped gearbox/hybrid energy recovery and apply unit.
The whole powertrain less storage and control no larger than an F1 engine.
It could operate as either a conventional multi stepped powertrain, a series hybrid, a parallel hybrid or a pure electric.
Unfortunately, we must wait while the selfish manufacturers continue to bolt on extra gearboxes motors and generators to obsolute fuel wasting 19th century vehicles.
The 1909 Panhard Levassa my friend has just started to rebuild uses less energy than most so called modern vehicles.

[010010011010]

Are you seriously calling the manufactures 'selfish' for not abandoning their knowladge base, heritage, branding, fans not to mention factorys and machinery and switching to that format of engine you just described? Which no offence just sounds like a bunch of buzzwords, or are you saying theyre selfish for not giving you their R&D budget?

I think we'll be waiting a while before we see a wankel BMW