A juicy lecture (on James Hunt)

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Just_a_fan
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Re: A juicy lecture

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bcoxa wrote:
Paulo Coeho wrote:“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It’s one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it’s another to think that yours is the only path”
That should be prominently positioned in every school in the world. And every religious building too.

The last sentence is difference between the believer and the fanatic...
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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fausto cedros
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Re: A juicy lecture

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A couple of notes:
for the song, it's well explained by Edgar Lee masters in "spoon river" at the "violinist Jones" portrait. That's what i guess Ciro means and it's a recurrent metaphor whenever any latin (at least)talks about Fangio, Nuvolari, Gilles, and the boys of Ferrari team in 1958.
Those drivers'lives (or pilots like Lindbergh or astronauts like Gus Grissom or engineers like Vittorio Jano or Reginald Mitchell)are to me roses in the garden of humanity. Roses are beauty with thorns among their leaves. If all those countless people have chosen to ask their hands to bleed by picking, it must have been for something deeper than vanity. That's the reason why they still mean a lot to all of us, despite their miseries, much greater then ours at times.
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere" Anthony Bruce Colin Chapman

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tarzoon
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Re: A juicy lecture

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mep
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Re: A juicy lecture

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Hey Ciro my friend I am very surprised to see you posting in this topic after you killed the one I did some months ago so harsh.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8785&p=191031#p191031
I probably will never understand what happend there.
mx_tifosi wrote:Lolzi knows what he's talking about. Hunt is a shameful image for F1 or anything at all, society would be even worse off with more people like him at the forefront. Glorification of that lifestyle is unpositive.
richard_leeds wrote:An amusing read, but probably published knowing that the dead can't complain of defamation.
The article doesn’t put any dirt on this man it’s the opinion in your minds that make the man look bad. I obviously have a different opinion about private life, sex and drugs. For me this article is a “hero glorification” something like the archetype of a race driver even when I admit that I don’t live like that. I don’t even come close to it.

Anyway I think it was his private life. He is free to do whatever he wants and nobody of us has the right to judge about his private life. It’s very typical behavior to care about the life of others to put dirt on them or talk negative. In fact if he want to have sex with multiple womans, drink, smoke use whatever drug he find it is still his own choice and nobody should prohibit that.

That all sounds very poetic. So you admire a man who cheated on his wife and did drugs all the time. Oh yes, he was so admirable.
One mistake he really did was to marry her not to cheat her.

I know this might sounds stupid now but why did he marry her when he never really wanted to have just her. Well we can blame the wife too because she also decided to marry him and she knew what kind of guy he was but anyway Hunt noticed that it was a mistake and so the marriage ended very soon and without any kind of conflict.

marcush.
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Re: A juicy lecture

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aaa...we are all only humans...and James even had that emboidered logo on his overalls:
Sex=breakfast for champions -posing together with his Suzy..I will not raise the finger
about James Hunt having a different concept to his private life compared to people in his time and absolutely unthinkable for a pro F1 driver of todays.
But he was a brilliant driver on his day and if anyone deserved to grab that title from
my then hero it was James as bitter as it was ...at least he made my sister happy(no I don´t think she ever got across him :-) but I remember she was even buying a James Hunt book back then 1975/76..she never was a fan of Formula though....

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mep
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Re: A juicy lecture

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Hmm there must be something attracting woman to a guy like Hunt.
Hard to explain how he could get so many stewardesses.

Agenda_Is_Incorrect
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Re: A juicy lecture

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Anyway I think it was his private life. He is free to do whatever he wants and nobody of us has the right to judge about his private life.
That all sounds very poetic. So you admire a man who cheated on his wife and did drugs all the time. Oh yes, he was so admirable.
This is the most typical hypocrisy of our society. You are judging right now, we all are. It's not wrong to judge, the Bible was just a book and it was wrong. Jesus judged as well. And as a matter of fact all societies have laws interfering on our personal lives. Actually I quoted mep because of the phrase, but the same thing is implied in other posts as well.

Maybe the worst thing is that the "hey man, don't judge, bro" thing is played whenever it's convenient. Like when people at this topic start talking about drivers being corporate robots and all sponsors being greedy or a book even worse than the Bible that was wrote by one of the worst generations of German thinkers and then say that it's all right to be like Hunt.

So all companies, everyone making money, everyone tying to be decent or everyone trying to like decent people is hypocrite and wrong no doubt and people like Hunt is not only ok but can't be put to judge? Hell, people here make 10 pages topics about a wrong attitude by a driver or FIA or a Team. I guess for some all it takes to scape the judgement is to be rebel. If it has flaws it's all right then, except if it's something or someone making a lot of money or having a behaviour that goes against personal believes it seems.

Seriously, it makes the book phrases, song and citations used here useless and laughable. Yoda, yoda, yoda don't judge others, there are many right ways, yoda, yoda, yoda but have you seen those criminals of the financial crisis? Typical behavior of wrong rebel supporters.

Some of us like to support good people first hand before supporting their abilities, it's not hypocrisy all the time nor a requirement of perfection. Also it's not an expectation that they don't make any profit out of their abilities. If they make money out of sponsors, games for "children" or whatever legal and morally correct way it matters as much as if the person has a more calm attitude or a more "correct rebel" one. What a book largely as worth as the Bible or any other religious book says about this is nearly worthless. It's a personal issue. What is wrong independent of the stile you like is things like drinking before driving an F1 car around other competitors, cheating your wife (even if she knew what was coming) and being a real dick out of the track just to show how "radical" he is, not to mention the drugs issue by itself that was never just a personal life thing.

About people saying that all geniuses are like that or that only people that behave this way is successful or gets their name on history, think about that: Button has the same amount of titles of Hunt. There are many more drivers with even more titles that were not like that. If they have less fans or are less know sometimes I bet that that's even what they wanted. The less talked about you are when you are successful the less you get envious people talking about how terrible you are because of your money or power that you conquered rightfully. Or that people start making questions out of your not so rightfully earned possessions if that's the case.

Not to mention putting your name in history is not always a good thing, many terrible people did it and are admired by some even today. But I get the thing about people saying geniuses "must be jerks or full of defects" and "correct people never get anywhere". Coming also from Latin America I know that attitude quite a lot around here. There is so many unsuccessful people here that for some of them it's inconceivable to someone to be good at something without doing something wrong to get to be this good or while having their success. The funny thing is that they usually adopt the strategy of doing anything to achieve success no matter right or wrong and almost everyone of them reaches a less than mediocre life by those means, while complaining that everyone else does it too. Unless it's a friend, someone they like or themselves of course, as in this case people just shouldn't judge. Says a lot about why some societies are the way they are and unfortunately it seems that it's an international thing.

So the same people start giving examples like Agassi, Woods, Armstrong and others as to justify this. But those are a minority and some got famous only by their bad acts, even if I agree that there are loads of successful people that follow that path and got where they are by dirty tricks. I can give you 5 names of tennis players, 10 names of drivers and many more that didn't follow that path and, aggressive or calm, are hugely admired, successful and are brilliant. Happily the world has more good geniuses than bad ones. Also, thank God that sports are becoming so demanding that "hey, I'm a rebel, let's do drugs before the race" types are physically unable to perform good. The world has it's ways to leave the rotten behind.

And, BTW, I want to see people talking that this bad genius type is necessary to the world when the next flamboyant billionaire that got his money out of schemes causes the next financial crises. Then I bet we will see people dropping the don't judge speech real quick.
I've been censored by a moderation team that rather see people dying and being shot at terrorist attacks than allowing people to speak the truth. That's racist apparently.

God made Trump win for a reason.

Pup
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Re: A juicy lecture

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See there? While you spent your Friday evening concocting a carefully worded diatribe, I spent mine getting just sloshed enough to reply. So two different paths can indeed lead to the same destination. I hope your friends enjoyed your post as much as mine enjoyed my wine.

Ok, that's harsh, but since you seem to be all for judging others, I wouldn't think you'd mind.

The point is that the world needs it's Hunts and its Burtons as much as it needs its sober, obedient engineers. The problems come when we confuse the two, like electing our cocaine sniffing drunks as president.

Agenda_Is_Incorrect
Agenda_Is_Incorrect
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Re: A juicy lecture

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That didn't take as long as it seems :lol:.

And I'm all in to judge everything, not just others. Actually, that's one of the main things people do at forums. The "rant" I made was actually more focused on that than on Hunt life itself. The judging thing is a big taboo and we would be better without it. But that doesn't mean that there aren't right and wrong judgements and wrong ways in how to do them, being harsh is one of them :wink:. And some mixing is also not right. I mean, F1T would be a place full of friendless people if your thinking was right and I can personally say this is not the way I have fun. That would be like denying Hunt had his bright days in F1 even if as a person he seems not shiny at all.

And while you say that about Sarkozy, remember that you are defending his kind is good and necessary. While they are present, some of them will become presidents, major company owners, F1 champions and so on. If you think they are desirable as much "other" people you can't put a restriction as were they should be. The world does need "rebel" people, I agree. But not in that way.
I've been censored by a moderation team that rather see people dying and being shot at terrorist attacks than allowing people to speak the truth. That's racist apparently.

God made Trump win for a reason.

lolzi
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Re: A juicy lecture

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Ciro Pabón wrote:lolzi, we are not fascinated by the personal lives of drivers, that's the point. We're fascinated by their driving, as I think Fausto (thanks again, man) tries to explain. We couldn't care less if they fart, drink or eat buggers... ;) You can learn something from anybody, even if he's less than perfect, as most humans are (exception made of the "angels" that live in the modern world of sports).
So now you are fascinated with his driving only. That's funny, nowhere in that pretty long post did you even mention his driving. It was all about his personal life. It seems strange to write so passionately about something you couldn't care less about, and never mentioning the thing you do care about :-s

Pup
Pup
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Re: A juicy lecture

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Agenda_Is_Incorrect wrote:And while you say that about Sarkozy, remember that you are defending his kind is good and necessary. While they are present, some of them will become presidents, major company owners, F1 champions and so on. If you think they are desirable as much "other" people you can't put a restriction as were they should be. The world does need "rebel" people, I agree. But not in that way.
Well, I had a different cocaine sniffing drunkard in mind. I don't care so much about a leader's behavior, past or present, so long as it doesn't affect his job. My point was that you wouldn't elect a leader merely for his failings. Unless you're a republican.

I don't agree with Ciro, either. Of course we care about Hunt's rowdiness. We love the fact that he got away with it, for the same reason we love to watch heist-film bank robbers get away with the loot. It's because we know it's reckless and we know, sometimes from experience and sometimes from fear, that if we acted like them, we'd hurt ourselves or someone else or end up in jail. If we'd dropped out of school, would we be another Steve Jobs, or a bum on the street? Likely, we'd be the bum. But that doesnt, and shouldnt, stop us from looking at these people with wonder. Their lives are works of art. Controversial, certainly, but you'd be a fool to dismiss them.

xpensive
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Re: A juicy lecture

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Pup wrote: ...
....as much as it needs its sober, obedient engineers.
If you come across one or two of that kind, do pass them on to me, will you Pup?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

feynman
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Re: A juicy lecture

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Pup, why don't you delete the bullshit childish politics from the first paragraph in your reply above.

This is an F1 forum, if you want to play silly insult games, we can all go that way, and then this thread will get locked, a thread about James Hunt, not US electoral politics.

That increasingly tired-out brand of juvenile crap get's left at HuffPo or DailyKos, you don't bring it here, it is not relevant, nor required, OK.

Pup
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Re: A juicy lecture

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xpensive wrote:
Pup wrote: ...
....as much as it needs its sober, obedient engineers.
If you come across one or two of that kind, do pass them on to me, will you Pup?
No problem. :P
feynman wrote:Pup, why don't you delete the bullshit childish politics from the first paragraph in your reply above.

This is an F1 forum, if you want to play silly insult games, we can all go that way, and then this thread will get locked, a thread about James Hunt, not US electoral politics.

That increasingly tired-out brand of juvenile crap get's left at HuffPo or DailyKos, you don't bring it here, it is not relevant, nor required, OK.
But playground bullying is obviously ok, huh? The question at hand is what happens when society ignores, or even praises a misspent youth, and what better example is there? Hunt even looks like a young George Bush in those photos - eerily so. My point is that any fascination for this kind of behavior is only dangerous when it becomes adulation, to the degree that makes people overlook important relevant shortcomings. When Bush was elected, the theme was that he was a 'guy you'd like to have a beer with'. Nothing wrong with that, but people were willing to overlook his inexperience, etc. for that very reason. So the comparison is quite relevant.

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: A juicy lecture

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I see the tone of the thread has darkened somewhat :o

I have to say that when we discuss James Hunt, alot of people are forgetting something. He was an F1 driver IN THE 70's for goodness sake.
That he was a rebellious drug taking sex addict is of no consequence to the fact he drove a car bloody fast and left an indelible impression on many aficionados opinion, and many female fans knickers too!

If he was a head of state, or some huge relief organisation then yea, he isn't suited. And Hunt didn't exactly force his views on people regarding his private life now did he?
Pup is right, JEALOUSY!!!! :lol:
More could have been done.
David Purley