With the track debut of the new V6 turbo engines coming closer and closer, teams are admitting that one of the major challenges of getting and efficient and reliable package will be managing the cooling systems.
I'm not sure about the F1 regs, but here's how the MSA define bodywork:Blackout wrote:Is it possible to shape the gear box casing, the top rear part for example like a mini beam wing ? it cant be considered like a bodywork , it's the Gbox casing
That definition means it's all down to your interpretation of "definitely associated with the mechanical functioning". I'd suggest it's "associated with", but not "required for".MSA wrote: Bodywork. All entirely sprung parts of the car in
contact with the external air stream, except the rollover
structures and the parts definitely associated with the
mechanical functioning of the engine, transmission and
running gear. Airboxes and radiators are considered to
be part of the bodywork. Exterior rear view mirrors are
not considered to be part of the bodywork. Bodywork
is differentiated as follows:
(a) Completely closed bodywork.
(b) Completely open bodywork
(c) Convertible bodywork with the hood in either
supple or rigid (hardtop) material.
From Pirelli pushing for wider tyres to be introduced for 2014 seasonAndrew Benson wrote: When the new rules for 2014 were introduced, it was expected the new design of engines would produce in the region of 750bhp, with 600bhp from the engine and turbo and 150bhp from enhanced energy recovery systems.
But the latest projections suggest the total power output could approach 850bhp, with as much as 700bhp produced by the engines and turbos alone.
That would mean power outputs about 70bhp greater than this season.
On top of that, the teams have been able to produce more aerodynamic downforce from the new chassis regulations than had been expected.
The new rules have greatly reduced the drag produced by the cars, so they can complete races with a new mandatory fuel restriction of no more than 100kg. Currently, there is no restriction and teams use about 140-150kg of fuel (about 210 litres) in a race.
The initial intention was to ensure the cars in 2014 would be no more than five seconds a lap slower than this year but the teams now believe cornering speeds will be only slightly down on this season.
Also answered on the current tire widths which he thought was 340 and 380mmCraig Scarborough @ScarbsF1
Pirelli's calls for 20mm wider and 30mm taller rear tyres will have a huge impact on mechanical (gearbox\suspension) & aero design for 2014
One compromise for the Teams\Pirelli is to only go for 20mm wider tyres in 2014 and increase the rear max width to 1840mm
It will be exciting to see where they have found this downforce. IMO the regulations looks to shed a quite substantial amount of downforce. The beamwing is gone. It produces a great amount of downforce in itself. Other than that it also helps with extracting air from the diffuser. This means diffusers will be slightly less effective as well. The rear wings will also be shallower. Again removing a lot of rear downforce. The front wings are slightly narrower which in it self doesn't decrease downforce that much. But because of the large reduction in rear downforce they will run lower AoA on the front wings to bring back the aero balance. So the overall DF level will be reduced a lot IMO.horse wrote:Interesting bit here from the BBC about Pirelli wanting to increase the tyre dimensions for next season. Apparently the teams already believe they will have greater power than expected and that the aerodynamic changes will not slow them significantly compared to this year.
From Pirelli pushing for wider tyres to be introduced for 2014 seasonAndrew Benson wrote: When the new rules for 2014 were introduced, it was expected the new design of engines would produce in the region of 750bhp, with 600bhp from the engine and turbo and 150bhp from enhanced energy recovery systems.
But the latest projections suggest the total power output could approach 850bhp, with as much as 700bhp produced by the engines and turbos alone.
That would mean power outputs about 70bhp greater than this season.
On top of that, the teams have been able to produce more aerodynamic downforce from the new chassis regulations than had been expected.
The new rules have greatly reduced the drag produced by the cars, so they can complete races with a new mandatory fuel restriction of no more than 100kg. Currently, there is no restriction and teams use about 140-150kg of fuel (about 210 litres) in a race.
The initial intention was to ensure the cars in 2014 would be no more than five seconds a lap slower than this year but the teams now believe cornering speeds will be only slightly down on this season.
You can expect Red Bull and Mercedes to go against Ferrari in the issue. Michelin will have massive experience from LMP1 with high torque from the Audi diesels and 18 inch rims and will take up the slack in no time to produce F1 tyres. We could face a very lively discussion if the 18 inch rim issue returns through the Michelin back door. Suspension design will be up in the air and everybody will go back to the drawing board. Perhaps a FRIC will be even more valuable?Racecar Engineering wrote:If indeed F1 suddenly ... does a deal with Michelin then the French firm would almost certainly demand 18 inch wheel rims, which it already has a family of tyres to suit, used in LMP1, meaning that the tyres will have much lower profiles.
Mercedes has reportedly already called for a switch to wider rims to deal with the additional torque generated by the 2014 power units. Some figures such as Ferrari’s James Allison refuse to accept that Michelin could be ready for 2014, but others such as Nigel Stepney insist that the deal is already done. So perhaps the tyres will still dominate talk in the paddock in the second half of the year but for very different reasons.
I think that for next year it will change nothing. during the last gp weekend the italian press said that pirelli wanted to make bigger tires at the rear but some teams didnt agree with them beacuse their projects are in advance status and this would cause huge problems.WhiteBlue wrote:You can expect Red Bull and Mercedes to go against Ferrari in the issue. Michelin will have massive experience from LMP1 with high torque from the Audi diesels and 18 inch rims and will take up the slack in no time to produce F1 tyres. We could face a very lively discussion if the 18 inch rim issue returns through the Michelin back door. Suspension design will be up in the air and everybody will go back to the drawing board. Perhaps a FRIC will be even more valuable?Racecar Engineering wrote:If indeed F1 suddenly ... does a deal with Michelin then the French firm would almost certainly demand 18 inch wheel rims, which it already has a family of tyres to suit, used in LMP1, meaning that the tyres will have much lower profiles.
Mercedes has reportedly already called for a switch to wider rims to deal with the additional torque generated by the 2014 power units. Some figures such as Ferrari’s James Allison refuse to accept that Michelin could be ready for 2014, but others such as Nigel Stepney insist that the deal is already done. So perhaps the tyres will still dominate talk in the paddock in the second half of the year but for very different reasons.
I don't think this is the whole story. We are dealing with two different proposals. Pirelli proposed some time ago to go to wider tires. But Michelin and Mercedes think the tyres need bigger rims or a lower profile to be safe.gary123 wrote:I think that for next year it will change nothing. during the last gp weekend the italian press said that pirelli wanted to make bigger tires at the rear but some teams didnt agree with them beacuse their projects are in advance status and this would cause huge problems.
But for 2015 every thing cuold change, Michelin could come back in F1 and we could se bigger wheels
i don't think that will make any difference. What about 2009, 2010 and 2011? You'll always get directed flow over the sidepods no matter what anyway. The wake of the front wing sends the flow upwards which will go over the top of the sidepods.trinidefender wrote:Not sure if this has been mentioned but for 2014 I expect we will see more designs with more airflow going around the sides of the sidepods rather than over them. Simply because many teams are trying to get as much airflow over the sidpods to push the exhaust flow down to the floor. In 2014 there will be no exhausts like that so therefore no need to have all that flow there.
its def 75mmHuntresa wrote:Just watched Scarbs on The Racers Edge, and he said the FW will just be 1.5cm shorter on each side, i thought it would be 7 or 7.5 on each side ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... LXY&t=1738
About 5 seconds in he says it.
