2013 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

[langwadt]

Was Alonso in a corner (for his trajectory)? Did he increase the radius of any corner or gain an acceleration zone by going off the track?

Paradoxically, while Alonso (arguably) was not in a corner, Vergne, trying to occupy the same piece of tarmac, clearly was negotiating a corner.

I agree, in fact i brought up the very same point. It IMO just underlines my point that Alonso had the option to lift safely, while Vergne was inside the right hand corner and comitted to the corner when Alonso entered the closing gap. When you are already at the limit of your grip, it's a lot harder to make changes to your direction or simply 'leave enough room'. Therefore, and because Alonso was entering the track, my conclusion is that if someone was to blame, it would be Alonso.

I'm no particular fan of Alonso but Alonso was side by side with Vergne well before he left the track, Vergne simple hadn't seen him so he left no room, I think in this case the stewards used common sense and saw it as a racing incident

For the sake of pointing it out again - i would have a lot less issues about it not being punished if the rules were applied consistently. Sadly it seems "leaving the track to gain an advantage' is one of the most black and white ones to apply - or at least that's what we were told when, i think Massa (or was it Grosjean?) narrowly passed a car but left the track for a split second (and by just a few inches) and should have given the place back. If it is such a black and white rule, how could this have been not?

gain an advantage will always be subject to interpretation

[radosav]

Do you people realize that JEV himself said Alonso prevented a big crash and he thought that Alonso didn't deserve a penalty. Sometimes it amazes me how people will let their agenda blind them to facts.

Since when does Vergne write the rulebook on track limits? Since when?
Oh he doesn´t? well in that case his point is worth as much as anyone´s.

"blind them to facts" Yea facts say he should get a penalty. FIA´s disregard of what the facts actually say means he does not get a penalty.

He broke the track limits rule and he overtook outside the racetrack. Crystal clear in what the facts say.

Since when do you do it??? Since when???? Are you maybe a F1 steward??? This is clear situation cause stewards, Vergne and Alonso claim the same!

[langwadt]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYJ2V_HCEAAOK0g.jpg:large

Doesn't the fourth picture from the link show that Alonso is in front of Vergne at this point? Of course, at this point Alonso already left the track with all four wheels. But if we go back a bit in this sequence, let's say between the third and the fourth frame, couldn't it be possible that Alonso was already ahead of Vergne just at the moment when his last wheel left the track?

they were wheel to wheel before he left the track, and the rules something like - if a substantial part of the front wing is
alongside the rear wheel you should leave a cars width of room

don't know if you can see this: http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/anden_spor ... 138713.ece

[FW17]

So where are the new overtaking possibilities in this proposal ? Just curious.

The first DRS zone is gone, right ? So only one DRS zone needed ?

[atanatizante]

...
He seems to be going for High downforce setups that can only be used when you start from the front row ...

Now look what Perez said about his low DF setup for this race and how he destroyed his rear tyres ...
In general speaking Lewis is going to the same setup rute like Nico, bearing in mind he wears the tyres more, but what puzzles me is that he is complaining with poor grip even with a high DF setup ...
And what's puzzles me more is the fact that Nico managed better the situation, even though he said it went for a little bit of a better top speed setup this weekend and in the race ...
I think that he has learn a lot staying 3 years behind Michael and his way of setup the car more towards the race in this disgrace tyre management F1 competition ...

Asked if there was any specific area it felt like that car was weak for him, Hamilton replied: "It was like I had another 50 kilos in the car or something, I just was slow."

As SectorOne said W04 was looking dead slow in slow speed section at least after the summer brake and I don't know why coz in traction section like S3 in Barca or Monaco they were the best ...
It's about the new tyres management issue after the summer (or in general for the 2013 compound) or they have a limited amount of gearing ratio setup choices and therefore couldn't done anything more? Or both?

[Phil]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYJ2V_HCEAAOK0g.jpg:large

Doesn't the fourth picture from the link show that Alonso is in front of Vergne at this point? Of course, at this point Alonso already left the track with all four wheels. But if we go back a bit in this sequence, let's say between the third and the fourth frame, couldn't it be possible that Alonso was already ahead of Vergne just at the moment when his last wheel left the track?

they were wheel to wheel before he left the track, and the rules something like - if a substantial part of the front wing is
alongside the rear wheel you should leave a cars width of room

I would agree under normal circumstances, but in this case, and since this was happening inside a corner, Vergne was committed to the speed he was doing once he hit the apex of his corner and the logical conclusion was that his car would drift/move outwards from there on. At this point, Alonso was behind him (even if only so slightly - see picture #2), possibly in Vergne's dead-angle, and it was clear from the get-go that he [Alonso] would end up on a disappearing peace of track.

There's a point at when you enter a corner, that you are pretty much committed to the speed and the angle at which you can turn in. If you apply a bit of common-sense to racing, it would be to not put yourself in places where the other can't see you and especially in a place that is disappearing. It's a bit like undercutting someone into a corner. If you can get up alongside *before* he starts turning into the corner (and closing in on the apex) you have successfully pulled of an overtake - however, if you fail to get alongside, then you can't really expect the other to know you're in his dead-angle and you are pretty much doomed to causing a collision.

IMO - if you're already attempting to pass a car on the *outside* of a corner, you better be in a very good position to pull it off and it's within your responsability to factor in your opponents driving ability (and state of his tires) and if there is a realistic chance he could avoid hitting you if he were to suddendly notice that you're pulling up beside him on corner exit.

[diego.liv]

If you can rewatch the race, from Massa's onboard second pit stop you can see a RB pit crew member holding cables not to bother Massa entering his pit, but as Massa approaches he move his foot to bother him! If i/you can take a decent video with the phone would be great

[SectorOne]

Since when do you do it??? Since when???? Are you maybe a F1 steward??? This is clear situation cause stewards, Vergne and Alonso claim the same!

I read the rules that everyone can read in black and white...

Thanks Blanchimont, just proves that the rules and regulations was disregarded this time and someone escaped a crystal clear penalty.

[Blanchimont]

What about this screen capture. It seems that Alonso's right rear tyre is still on the track and it also seems as if he is slightly ahead of Vergne if you compare the rear tyres of the two cars.

Does this mean that Vergne has already been overtaken on the track?

[Yurasyk]

Does this mean that Vergne has already been overtaken on the track?

I guess this is not overtaking. Furthermore in this incident it does not matter cause first of all Alonso got advantage from going outside track even if at the moment of this sceenshot he already have overtaken Vergne. Just remember Riccardo's overtaking in 130R at Suzuka when he leaved track after passing Force India and was punished.

[Traction]

What's was this all about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDeq-n3v_Xg&sns=em

[Hobbs04]

Since when do you do it??? Since when???? Are you maybe a F1 steward??? This is clear situation cause stewards, Vergne and Alonso claim the same!

I read the rules that everyone can read in black and white...

Thanks Blanchimont, just proves that the rules and regulations was disregarded this time and someone escaped a crystal clear penalty.

Sector, why do they have stewards then? Why do they want a racing driver as a steward? I know where your coming from but not everything in the world is black and white.

[SectorOne]

Sector, why do they have stewards then? Why do they want a racing driver as a steward? I know where your coming from but not everything in the world is black and white.

Yea good question, the stewards are as inconsistent as FIA´s enforcing of the black and white rules.

You can not leave the racetrack. You can not overtake outside track limits.

Alonso is going for a gap that never exists. It would only exist for him if Vergne decides to not take the corner as he usually does.
What Alonso did was squeeze himself into a decreasing gap hoping and praying Vergne would take notice.
Vergne never did, he just drove the regular line and Alonso decided brakes are unnecessary so he kept the throttle pinned and overtook by any means necessary.

Imagine for a second there´s a brick wall outside the track limit. Do you honestly think Alonso would still keep the throttle pinned? No he would slam on the brakes as if his life depended on it.
You don´t even have to imagine a brick wall. A nice big pit of sand would be enough.

[radosav]

Does this mean that Vergne has already been overtaken on the track?

I guess this is not overtaking. Furthermore in this incident it does not matter cause first of all Alonso got advantage from going outside track even if at the moment of this sceenshot he already have overtaken Vergne. Just remember Riccardo's overtaking in 130R at Suzuka when he leaved track after passing Force India and was punished.

that is why they have stewards. remember bahrain 2012 hamilton and rosberg. stewards decided this move legal overtake.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... C05YfPIBVc[/youtube]

[radosav]

Sector, why do they have stewards then? Why do they want a racing driver as a steward? I know where your coming from but not everything in the world is black and white.

Yea good question, the stewards are as inconsistent as FIA´s enforcing of the black and white rules.

You can not leave the racetrack. You can not overtake outside track limits.

Alonso is going for a gap that never exists. It would only exist for him if Vergne decides to not take the corner as he usually does.
What Alonso did was squeeze himself into a decreasing gap hoping and praying Vergne would take notice.
Vergne never did, he just drove the regular line and Alonso decided brakes are unnecessary so he kept the throttle pinned and overtook by any means necessary.

Imagine for a second there´s a brick wall outside the track limit. Do you honestly think Alonso would still keep the throttle pinned? No he would slam on the brakes as if his life depended on it.
You don´t even have to imagine a brick wall. A nice big pit of sand would be enough.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYJ2V_HCEAAOK0g.jpg:large

Knowing difference between track kerb and brick wall is one of Alonso's greatest virtue.
That is the reason he drives F1 car for Ferrari, that is the reason why he is one of the most payed drivers in the world and considered one of the best F1 drivers in the world.
For love of god, he is F1 driver , not tourist driving on highway in foreign country for the first time!!!!