The 2016 F1 WDC Title Dumpster Topic

[turbof1]

So what you are basically saying is that running stuck in 7th gear, a gear they specifically told him to avoid, is not detrimental to the gearbox at all. Infact it'll probably allow races to be won while lapping the while grid 5 times?

Understood, GPR-A. Very great insight there.

First of all, it was rubbish and ill conceived, whoever thought of putting ban on helping the drivers on technical issues on these ultra complex cars. Racing assistance shouldn't be provided, good.

The team that was quick to jump in and help Nico, didn't showed the same tenacity in helping Lewis in baku. He did asked specifically to the team, if he can try different settings for which his race engineer said, "we wouldn't advice you to do that". That was to say, just be stuck there. But miraculously, the settings come back to life after a while.

And who knows, just like Nico figured out the engine settings issue in Baku, he could have fiddled a bit and then would have managed to get out of the problem OR may be just like how Lewis' engine settings came back to life, Nico's gear box would have also started working. We have seen many a times that drivers do manage to reset their cars without help (Lewis did a similar thing in 2007 Brazilian GP ).

That it was ill conceived, there I agree with you. It was a very bad regulation (I'll get back on that below). I just don't agree that you can compare the 2 cases. Hamilton was stuck in a wrong engine mode which was not harmful to his PU. It only costed a bit of power. In this case there was nothing the team could tell him without incurring a penalty. A penalty would have set Hamilton even further back, I hope you do realise that.

In Rosberg's case, the team actually was allowed to "default" the drivetrain in a race-ending threat: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/radio ... ue-797513/. It involved quite a few instructions, so I am not sure he could do this on his own. This was specifically mentioned in the technical directive and team did tell him to do so, solving the problem. However, to keep the problem from Rosberg hitting again, they told him to avoid 7th gear. Therefore he was penalized. You can imagine what would have happened if they did not told him to do so: he would go back to 7th atleast one or two times, get stuck in it again. He'll probably be smart enough to default on his own now, but all the while he would loose dozens of seconds. In Rosberg's case the penalty did not outweight being stuck in 7th gear. Again, Mercedes does not care about its drivers. It cares about getting its cars in highest possible position, irrespective which driver fills which spot.

[SR71]

And it was not like nobody saw this coming. This outcome was very probable after Japan; I am also perplexed with the amount of controversy this generates.

For the record, to the people who believe Mercedes conspired with Rosberg: What do you think it means for Mercedes when a PU blows up? That's not exactly good marketing. Plus 1,500 workers can say goodbye to a bonus.

Every decision Mercedes made that did not benefit Hamilton, was made solely to benefit the team, just as every decision made that did not benefit Rosberg, was made solely to benefit the team.

I'm not saying they did, but circumstantial evidence is strong that at very many points this year, they purposely helped Rosberg. Switching the mechanics was suspect from the start. Mercedes doesn't have to do a thing, just one guy not torquing a bolt to spec is all it takes. Again not saying it would but in a sport where teams design one driver to crash in order to give the other driver the lead, it's a bit myopic to claim Mercedes never would do such a thing.

Mercedes did not tell Lewis in Baku how to change his engine mapping (suspect that it was wrong in the first place) but did tell Nico how to reset his transmission issues? Suspect.

Statistically speaking the 4-0 engine failure is astronomically freakish, again suspect.

The multiple instances where Lewis was not allowed to race Nico, taken off of tires that would have demonstrably lasted to the end of the race, effectively handing Nico a win, again suspect.

A brand new PU blowing up with what Mercedes called a freak of a one off issue and yet not a word of concern from the team for the remainder of the season, again suspect.

The bizarre instructions this weekend from the team help quite a bit to strengthen the weight of all that circumstantial evidence.

So did Mercedes think that having two WDC driving for them, one of them a German son, boosting whatever market share they could in Germany outweigh the storm of negative social media commentary? I don't know. Your comment of 1,500 employees losing their bonus is a moot point, the WCC was clinched eons ago so why not let them race this weekend or why try so hard to protect against the possibility of a 1-4 finish and Rosberg not being crowned? I don't know who or why or if anyone made decision that gave us the results we got but the result are one suspect and two not because of two bad starts made by Lewis Hamilton.

It's a year's worth of circumstantial evidence that's hard to overlook given the machinations we've seen from teams in the past.

Let's play this out. If you believe what you stated above the you have ZERO room to disagree with the statement below:

-If Mercedes switching mechanics aided Nico in his WDC, then those mechanics are responsible for Lewis's 2 merc WDCs.

-If Mercedes intentionally helped Nico win this year, then the opposite must be true, they intentionally helped Lewis win the years before.

-If a driver doesnt deserve a WDC because of mechanical issues with his closest rivals, then Lewis doesn't deserve his 08 championship.

That means, Lewis has 1 undeserved WDC from 08 and TWO undeserved WDC's with mercedes since he only won due to the team supplying him with mechanics that were supperior than nico's and intentionally sabotoging nico's 2014 and 2015...

You're 100% stating Lewis is the most undeserving multiple champion on the grid, perhaps in history.

Or we could be adults and realize you make your own luck in F1, and when you lose the WDC by under 10 points over an entire season, the driver is more responsible than anyone else.

[Just_a_fan]

Or we could be adults and realize you make your own luck in F1, and when you lose the WDC by under 10 points over an entire season, the driver is more responsible than anyone else.

What rubbish. Losing by 5 points when you had a 25 point race win taken away by a reliability issue is not "driver responsible".

[TAG]

Or we could be adults and realize you make your own luck in F1, and when you lose the WDC by under 10 points over an entire season, the driver is more responsible than anyone else.

What rubbish. Losing by 5 points when you had a 25 point race win taken away by a reliability issue is not "driver responsible".

28.

[Just_a_fan]

TAG, the win was 25 points, the swing was 28 points. But either way the point stands.

[RedNEO]

but over a season the better man won.

lol,

When your only response is 'lol' and a emoji your not exactly proving your point. Rosberg had the better starts 8 poles and 9 wins and kept his head and stayed focus all season long and he was rewarded.

[i70q7m7ghw]

So Hamilton lost by 5 points, and he lost 7 points alone due to a poor start in Australia. There were other poor starts, and that error in qualifying in Azerbaijan, so it wasn't ALL down to mechanical failures. We could say without those mechanical failures, perhaps he would have won the WDC. Equally we can also say without driver errors, he would also have won the WDC, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other really.

What we CAN say is that Nico Rosberg drove his best season to date scoring 385 points which won him this year's championship and outscored his and Lewis Hamilton's score from 2015!

2016 WDC
ROS - 385
HAM - 380

2015 WDC
HAM - 380
ROS - 322

The numbers don't lie.

[dans79]

lol,

When your only response is 'lol' and a emoji your not exactly proving your point.

Some statements are so ludicrous they aren't worth putting effort into responding to, thus pointing out their lunacy and moving on is a better coarse of action.

[andartop]

Just a quick question to those so passionately arguing how Nico's WDC is undeserved due to Lewis' bad luck.
Had Lewis' plan worked as intended and either Seb or Max made a mistake trying to overtake Nico, taking Nico out of the race, would that make Lewis a more worthy champion than Nico or would you still be here arguing how Nico would be the moral WDC as he would have lost it due to 'bad luck'?


For the record, and being an unashamed Ferrari fan, I must say what I thought of the title-deciding race was just sadness for the current state of F1: the one title contender driving as slow as he possibly could in the faint hope of slowing down his opponent so he might get overtaken or just taken out of the race, the other one driving even slower, unable or scared to even attempt an overtake, and everybody else STILL unable to overtake the Mercs.

Only bit I enjoyed was the British commentators, who spent half the race praising their favourite boy for just going for the win and not being tempted to do the lowly thing and try to slow down Nico, such a pure 'racer' that he is, to then change the tune in the last part of the race trying to explain how, you know, he had to do what he had to do, as any 'true Champion' would do in his shoes...

[TAG]

Had Lewis' plan worked as intended and either Seb or Max made a mistake trying to overtake Nico, taking Nico out of the race, would that make Lewis a more worthy champion than Nico or would you still be here arguing how Nico would be the moral WDC as he would have lost it due to 'bad luck'?

What kept Nico from pushing to overtake Lewis? Maybe that would have forced Lewis to go faster and there's wouldn't have been a concern of being overtaken. Maybe the worth comes from winning instead of being handed wins? You're a Ferrari fan, I'm sure you're okay with all the moral high ground taken by Schumacher and Ferrari.



The last time Ferrari won a championship was the year Hamilton showed up. Maybe that's colored your opinion of him.

[Just_a_fan]

So Hamilton lost by 5 points, and he lost 7 points alone due to a poor start in Australia. There were other poor starts, and that error in qualifying in Azerbaijan, so it wasn't ALL down to mechanical failures. We could say without those mechanical failures, perhaps he would have won the WDC. Equally we can also say without driver errors, he would also have won the WDC, it's six of one, half a dozen of the other really.

Ah yes, the starts. That's where he lost all of his points. Of course. No points lost when the super-reliable engine died when easily leading in Sepang. No points lost by ERS failures that ruined/prevented qualifying. No points lost by the team putting the wrong engine map in at Baku prior to qualifying (which then had to be run in the race).

No, no points list other than in a few race starts. All down to the starts, yes.

[taperoo2k]

Just a quick question to those so passionately arguing how Nico's WDC is undeserved due to Lewis' bad luck.
Had Lewis' plan worked as intended and either Seb or Max made a mistake trying to overtake Nico, taking Nico out of the race, would that make Lewis a more worthy champion than Nico or would you still be here arguing how Nico would be the moral WDC as he would have lost it due to 'bad luck'?

It would have merely shown that Lewis will do anything to win. Which is no bad thing, all the great drivers have that skill.
Rosberg did what he needed to do throughout the season and is a worthy Champion. I think people may have forgotten that driver titles have been decided before due to reliability issues and poor starts vs consistency, given how stale things have been in the current era of F1 that may have got lost in the boredom mists. I'm just bemused by the furore over what Lewis did, which was to control the pace of a race in the hope it might help his title chances. I doubt Rosberg really cares at this point, he's champion. In fact he may well have done the same thing himself if the roles were reversed.

If Lewis were being dirty as some seem to think he was, he'd have tried something similar as to what Schumacher did to Hill.

I'll be surprised if Mercedes do anything more than fine Lewis. If they attempt to bench him for 3 races, he'll walk. If they sack him ? Plenty of other F1 teams will snap him up and it could well bite Mercedes in the backside down the line.

For the record, and being an unashamed Ferrari fan, I must say what I thought of the title-deciding race was just sadness for the current state of F1: the one title contender driving as slow as he possibly could in the faint hope of slowing down his opponent so he might get overtaken or just taken out of the race, the other one driving even slower, unable or scared to even attempt an overtake, and everybody else STILL unable to overtake the Mercs.

It's a legitimate tactic and really the only one open to Lewis. It's not got much to do with the state of F1, more the way the points shook out.

Only bit I enjoyed was the British commentators, who spent half the race praising their favourite boy for just going for the win and not being tempted to do the lowly thing and try to slow down Nico, such a pure 'racer' that he is, to then change the tune in the last part of the race trying to explain how, you know, he had to do what he had to do, as any 'true Champion' would do in his shoes...

Well it was fairly dim of Mercedes to tell Lewis "If you drive slow to back Nico up, we'll do the undercut on you", meant that Lewis simply bided his time and then dropped the go slow hammer after the pit stop window closed. The commentary was dire from start to finish.

[andartop]

What kept Nico from pushing to overtake Lewis? Maybe that would have forced Lewis to go faster and there's wouldn't have been a concern of being overtaken. Maybe the worth comes from winning instead of being handed wins? You're a Ferrari fan, I'm sure you're okay with all the moral high ground taken by Schumacher and Ferrari.
...
The last time Ferrari won a championship was the year Hamilton showed up. Maybe that's colored your opinion of him.

Maybe you missed the second paragraph of my post where I expressed my opinion about Nico's drive, as well as everyone else's...
I am not going to start arguing with you about what happened a decade ago, sorry.

[mika vs michael]

Mercedes intervention was purely and utterly stupid. Lewis no matter what needed to win the race to have a real chance. F1 drivers are elite athletes, they are not football or basketball players...Senna Schumacher and so many others out there were ruthless and that's how it must be to be the best of the best. The constructors championship was early over. This race was a about winning the WDC and this is the most important title in F1 in terms of public attraction. it's the final of the finals...Lewis did what he had to do. F1 needs more drivers like Lewis. it does not need more "yesmen"...it needs more controversy and more drama otherwise it is boring...it is not a chess or balley contest, it's a ruthless game with so much going behind the curtain...

[marvin78]

That's were most people are wrong. F1 needs no drama, it needs racing. REAL racing.