FIA introduces £30m budget cap

[Metar]

Straight-line speed isn't the only field where MotoGP appears superior at the moment.

[DaveKillens]

Why do Ferrari oppose this new budget? It's all about change. As long as the rules stayed relatively static, Ferrari could build on the previous success and stay on top. What happens when the rules change? The pecking order is in jeapordy of change. Just look at who's currently leading in points, and what happened to the ones who were doing well last year. Ferrari oppose changes on that one reason alone. If you're on top of the mountain, and change happens, the risk is high that you will not stay on top of the mountain.

[Ogami musashi]

Straight-line speed isn't the only field where MotoGP appears superior at the moment.

except from the possible "on track action" being far better, what do you mean by that?

[vall]

If ever the rear wing servo fails and the wing does not revert to it’s high DF setting as the car enters the braking zone then the car will sail straight on into the scenery.

I read Peter Sauber called movable rare wings 'insane idea' for the very same reason

[Metar]

except from the possible "on track action" being far better, what do you mean by that?

Actually, I'd have to take that statement back. They use spec tyres this season, and engine-development is now open in F1 as well... The 17kRPM-and-onwards 800cc engines are quite a feast for the ears. In fact, there are now quite a few similarities. Both use a spec tyre, no refueling and unlimited engines restricted by fuel-consumption and one-race-reliability alone. One could claim hiding behind the windshield and rising as an airbrake is active aero, too.

And then there's the on-track action bit, though F1 is catching up very nicely.

[Ogami musashi]

com'on it's the same for any assited system like power steering and engine electronics!

when a suspension arm fails would you ban them??

We can make failsafe systems.

metar:

Ah yes; but the developpment for engine in F1 is still frozen, even for CRT next year. What they can do is rev unlimited but engines are unfortunately still homologated.

That said, KERS for CRT is pretty open even with transmission.

[Scotracer]

I can see a change in the engine regs before next year. All the teams were allowed to adapt their engines for this year's 18,000rpm limit therefore they should be allowed to do the same for next year.

And yes MotoGP is currently the last sanctuary for the petrol head.

[Pingguest]

I would love them to be faster like in 2004 yes.
Top speed would be faster and that would be great because nowadays moto gp are faster in straight line.

Back in 2004 even Michael Schumacher complained about fysical problems due to the high cornering speeds. From a safety point of view the cornerings speeds may well become too high.

[Scotracer]

I would love them to be faster like in 2004 yes.
Top speed would be faster and that would be great because nowadays moto gp are faster in straight line.

Back in 2004 even Michael Schumacher complained about fysical problems due to the high cornering speeds. From a safety point of view the cornerings speeds may well become too high.

The cornering speeds wont increase next year by all that much as peak downforce levels will not increase by any great margin (and you have the min weight limit increase too). The problem with the 2004 F1 cars is that they were ridiculously fast in both straight lines AND even faster in the corners. It was a combination never seen before - it was the apex, if you will. Next year we'll see this year's cornering speeds (well, apart from the drag-restricted corners, such as 130R or Eau Rouge or Bridge...well, scrap the last one ) coupled with much increased straight line speed. This is probably the perfect combination as you will see more mistakes, longer braking distances and the extra power giving the drivers traction issues. They were pulling 6G at some points during 2004 for crying out loud!


As I have been saying for 5 years, the best racing comes from cars that have more power than grip, relatively. F1 cars since the V8 inception have been the opposite. It is really quite obvious this year with the extreme mechanical grip the cars have and the very modest engine outputs. Let's hope next year we have a turn around as F1 should be about the drivers wrestling monsters into corners, not pointing an arrow.

[Metar]

I disagree on cornering-speeds. Up until now, teams had to compromise their setups between the downforce-requirements and the top-speed of the car. At Indy, for example, they always ran medium settings - some teams leaning towards low downforce on the oval section - but now, they can run zero wing through Fuji's straight, then lots of it (and stall the wing) in the braking-zone to create as much drag and downforce (unless stalling) as possible, and then gradually fade the angle as they exit the curve and get back on the throttle. Or, at Indy, run IndyCar levels of drag&downforce down the oval, and then medium-high downforce through the micky-mouse section. More downforce that cost them too much earlier.

[Scotracer]

It's only a 10 degree variation that's possible for next year so it's still a compromise.

[WhiteBlue]

I agree that variable wing geometry can be a concern. Peter Sauber once had to pull his cars out of the Brazil GP because rear wings were flexing too much and broke. That has probably influenced his position on movable rear wings.

Having said that I also agree with the view that redundant safety systems have to be implemented to make this as safe as the systems in commercial airplanes. That should be the target.

The other aspect mentioned already by Ogami is the manual activation of the adjustable stuff. I believe this is currently going over the top. The drivers have to push buttons for Rear KERS, Front KERS, Front Wings , Rear wings and they also need to drive the cars. I feel it is getting a bit too much with this. Some systems should be automated perhaps the wings as Ogami suggested.

[xpensive]

The more I think about the free-adjustable wings, the more excited I get about it, room for in-xpensive innovation at last!

As I hope my draft example upstream on this thread helped to show, the entire rear-wing of today probably costs less than 80 Hp at 290 km/h, why it's not any earth-shattering changes anyway.

[Pingguest]

I agree that variable wing geometry can be a concern. Peter Sauber once had to pull his cars out of the Brazil GP because rear wings were flexing too much and broke. That has probably influenced his position on movable rear wings.

Having said that I also agree with the view that redundant safety systems have to be implemented to make this as safe as the systems in commercial airplanes. That should be the target.

The other aspect mentioned already by Ogami is the manual activation of the adjustable stuff. I believe this is currently going over the top. The drivers have to push buttons for Rear KERS, Front KERS, Front Wings , Rear wings and they also need to drive the cars. I feel it is getting a bit too much with this. Some systems should be automated perhaps the wings as Ogami suggested.

Automatic adjustmens would just be another driver aid. I don't think that sort of technology should be in Formula 1.

[Scotracer]

I agree that variable wing geometry can be a concern. Peter Sauber once had to pull his cars out of the Brazil GP because rear wings were flexing too much and broke. That has probably influenced his position on movable rear wings.

Having said that I also agree with the view that redundant safety systems have to be implemented to make this as safe as the systems in commercial airplanes. That should be the target.

The other aspect mentioned already by Ogami is the manual activation of the adjustable stuff. I believe this is currently going over the top. The drivers have to push buttons for Rear KERS, Front KERS, Front Wings , Rear wings and they also need to drive the cars. I feel it is getting a bit too much with this. Some systems should be automated perhaps the wings as Ogami suggested.

Automatic adjustmens would just be another driver aid. I don't think that sort of technology should be in Formula 1.

So, is automatic ignition timing adjustment a driver aid? Should we have manual timing advancement and retard in the cars?