2013 Indian GP - Buddh

[ringo]

To be honest, it served him right. Kimi took the liberty to act like a spoiled brat, Lotus take the liberty to make fun of him about that. Karma is very serious business at Lotus.

Clearly, you do not know the situation at all.

1. That was the first communication to Kimi on the radio and it was during the high speed corner. How would you like it if you were driving that fast through a corner and someone shouted in your ears? He told Permane that he would let Grosjean pass, but if you were to do it in the fast corner, you would have to go fast as well so you don't lose the car by slowing down in the middle of a turn suddenly. Grosjean didn't know how to pass properly, as evident in his time in Formula 1, and his whining about Guttierez in the race. Just look at Alonso turn his frustration into an actual pass instead.

2. The minute the Kimi to Ferrari deal was announced, certain Lotus personnel started acting cold towards Kimi. This is very similar to Hamilton's announcement from McLaren to Mercedes. The reports of employees not wanting to share too much with Lewis in terms of data and also bonding because they then saw him as a competitor from another team. Remember spygate? Nobody wants to give another team technical information, which is even more important in a time where new technical regulations are going to start.

If you want to talk about Karma, then you should look at how Lotus who was nowhere before Kimi arrived now acts towards the one guy who made them relevant these past 2 years. Without Kimi, they would have had a pay driver and he and Grosjean would've brought Lotus to a great 7th place in the Constructors, if lucky.

boo hoo for Kimi.
He's always non communicable anyway, so i don't think he cares much about what Lotus is doing as long as they give him the car to finish the season.
Romain had to move over more than enough for Kimi and humbly accepted the team decision. Kimi needs to grow up. He's racing long enough.

[foxmulder_ms]

I don't take anyone's side on this one, but:

All oppinions about the Raikkonen-Permane radio, team attitude towards Kimi and sabotage paranoia are from outsiders who don't know what's actually happening in the team.
On the whole Lotus - Raikkonen story, I think the one who owes a slight bit more to the other is Kimi. If he ended up at Williams in 2012, he would have probably be looking to start rallying again next year. It's not an easy thing for a team to take a risk with a driver who did anything else but F1 for two years and one who had an unsuccessful first stint in F1 (quite disastruous to be honest), so Lotus has to get some credit for that. It happened to work with Kimi, that's all, no one could have predict that.

Can't help myself thinking that it's funny how people made Raikkonen a hero after he snapped twice at the team in Abu Dhabi 2012, there were no harsh reactions when team orders were in Kimi's favour or when Alan told Grosjean to have a "big f***ing smile" on the podium, but are calling Lotus idiots because they snapped at Kimi now. Hypocrisy at its best.

And yes, after their main driver signing with Ferrari, it was a normal thing for Lotus to start and be more cautious about what they share with Kimi.

I absolutely do not accept "paranoid" label. I simply want to point two things:

1) Lotus is craving to make Groj finish in front of of Kimi. This does not mean they are sabotaging Kimi's car. They are trying to achieve most possible points but they definitely prefer to see Groj beating Kimi.

2) The strategy for Kimi was terrible. As I wrote in my first post, if they went with Vettel's strat or regular OPP, Kimi will be easily second. Even if they bailed 1-stop strat after lab 50 when it was kind of obvious that tries wouldn't last, he would have had a chance to beat Hamilton, may be more...

Anyway, only three races left

[Boudica]

I don't take anyone's side on this one, but:

All oppinions about the Raikkonen-Permane radio, team attitude towards Kimi and sabotage paranoia are from outsiders who don't know what's actually happening in the team.
On the whole Lotus - Raikkonen story, I think the one who owes a slight bit more to the other is Kimi. If he ended up at Williams in 2012, he would have probably be looking to start rallying again next year. It's not an easy thing for a team to take a risk with a driver who did anything else but F1 for two years and one who had an unsuccessful first stint in F1 (quite disastruous to be honest), so Lotus has to get some credit for that. It happened to work with Kimi, that's all, no one could have predict that.

Can't help myself thinking that it's funny how people made Raikkonen a hero after he snapped twice at the team in Abu Dhabi 2012, there were no harsh reactions when team orders were in Kimi's favour or when Alan told Grosjean to have a "big f***ing smile" on the podium, but are calling Lotus idiots because they snapped at Kimi now. Hypocrisy at its best.

And yes, after their main driver signing with Ferrari, it was a normal thing for Lotus to start and be more cautious about what they share with Kimi.

Permane is a senior member of the team, he is the strategist. Strategist are usually there to keep a cool head. When you have a senior team member screaming at an employee in public it is never going to turn out well. And sure enough Lotus has now gotten more bad PR out of this then what they can cope with. It was because of Permane's strategic faults that Kimi was there in that position to begin with.

[RubberSoul]

boo hoo for Kimi.
He's always non communicable anyway, so i don't think he cares much about what Lotus is doing as long as they give him the car to finish the season.
Romain had to move over more than enough for Kimi and humbly accepted the team decision. Kimi needs to grow up. He's racing long enough.

Julien FEBREAU (French Canal Plus) tweeted:

L'empoignade verbale entre Raiko et Permane, dans l'hospitalité Lotus après le GP était de toute beauté ! Étonnamment expressif le Kimi !

Translated by Google:
The verbal tussle between Raiko and Permane in the Lotus hospitality after the GP was beautiful! The surprisingly expressive Kimi!

[RubberSoul]

I don't take anyone's side on this one, but:

All oppinions about the Raikkonen-Permane radio, team attitude towards Kimi and sabotage paranoia are from outsiders who don't know what's actually happening in the team.
On the whole Lotus - Raikkonen story, I think the one who owes a slight bit more to the other is Kimi. If he ended up at Williams in 2012, he would have probably be looking to start rallying again next year. It's not an easy thing for a team to take a risk with a driver who did anything else but F1 for two years and one who had an unsuccessful first stint in F1 (quite disastruous to be honest), so Lotus has to get some credit for that. It happened to work with Kimi, that's all, no one could have predict that.

Can't help myself thinking that it's funny how people made Raikkonen a hero after he snapped twice at the team in Abu Dhabi 2012, there were no harsh reactions when team orders were in Kimi's favour or when Alan told Grosjean to have a "big f***ing smile" on the podium, but are calling Lotus idiots because they snapped at Kimi now. Hypocrisy at its best.

And yes, after their main driver signing with Ferrari, it was a normal thing for Lotus to start and be more cautious about what they share with Kimi.

Permane is a senior member of the team, he is the strategist. Strategist are usually there to keep a cool head. When you have a senior team member screaming at an employee in public it is never going to turn out well. And sure enough Lotus has now gotten more bad PR out of this then what they can cope with. It was because of Permane's strategic faults that Kimi was there in that position to begin with.

Couldn't agree more.

Boullier is trying to save what there still is to be saved by apologising according to Autosport.

Eric Boullier apologises for Kimi Raikkonen/Lotus F1 radio exchange:
On Monday, Boullier said the radio exchange had been inappropriate and that he will make sure it is not repeated.

[Cold Fussion]

-snip-

This shows the same thing: Kimi was generally faster up to lap 44 or so. The difference was in the beginning where Romain was
running much slower laptimes for the 3 first laps. This combined with the fact that he had a new set of tires enabled him to pit much later on lap 13 vs. Kimi on lap 7. Kimi's race was ruined by the overheating brakes and poor strategy. His first lap stop was more than 3 s longer than normally because they had to cool down the brakes. Kimi said that he had virtually no brakes during the 20 first laps: whenever he was running close to another car his brakes overheated and faded.

I think the question that needs to be asked is if lotus were to have run kimi on a 2 stop strategy, similar to that of vettel and the mercs, would he have had the excess pace over the mercs to beat them? In hindsight it was a bad call yes, but after the first stint where the soft tyres seemed to last a lot longer than the practice long runs would have suggested, it may have been a reasonable assumption the tyres might have lasted to the end. They really should have reacted when the times started to drop off (lap 50 or so from memory) though and slap on some new mediums and lap a couple seconds a lap faster. That may have put him into a podium challenging place at the end.

[iotar__]

What a storm in a tea cup with usual made up scenarios, but what can you expect when Germany was the subject of similar treatment after the perfect strategy and double team orders, if that strategy was bad than every other can be. So what about pace on softs, getting overtaken by Hulkenberg at the start, poor qualifying (place among Merc and Massa) and to some extent bad pitstop? Combined result - stuck behind Hulkenberg. What was it, five laps more than Grosjean (stuck behind Gutierrez) to expect compared to ending behind Ham or Perez on a two stopper? Epic tragedy.

Language as a problem and apologies? Even more pathetic than driving, but OK that's corporate (cursing) and marketing ("offended" idol) mentality. I'd say that they had more serious things to apologise for and they created this spoilt primadonna attitude. One good thing considering new development that length of stint affects pace AND tyres- those previous theoretical scenarios like Korea without two safety car need a bit correcting now, right? Here pace looked fine until some point.

This one is not worth discussing, I like Hulkenberg incident more, not only did he go off he also came back from outside the track into the path of Bottas forcing him to slow down and change direction, a bit like Maldo-Ham Valencia 2012. Two rules broken.

Edit: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/lotus ... h-threats/
"It is believed Permane received death threats against himself and his family in the wake of the radio message, ostensibly from angry Raikkonen fans." Mental cases. I can't say I'm surprised after reading some of the stuff on forums.

[Vasconia]

Kimi´s attitude was absolutely stupid, his tyres were off, his pace was terrible and he was goingo to loose some positions, you cant make this movement with your teammate in that situation. He could have ruined both drivers race.

This is the most notorious fact, then we can speak about teams reaction, both drivers pace,etc. But the fact is that Kimis attitude generated all the problem, nothing more, nothing less.

And yes, Kimis strategy was not the good one but hey, the team made a great mistake with Romain on Saturday and some KImi fans seem to ignore this fact.

[Blackout]

Kimi's 'bad' startegy was mainly his fault. Team's responasbilty is very relative in this case. KR admits it but he says it wasnt that bad as a strategy.

[komninosm]

at least the FIA showed some common sense and let it slide that he didn't park the car in parc ferme and he didn't get weighted right after the race, they could easily have disqualified him

Wouldn't it be funny if someone sued FIA over this?

[komninosm]

I asked myself the same questions during the race. I saw Seb off the track sometimes 3 or more times PER LAP! Yet not a peep from the stewards. I don't begrude Vettel his win and title, but the officiating in F1 has become a complete and utter joke.

Wait, didn't they say that was only legal in qualifying?
Did only Vettel do it so much in the race or many drivers?

[Moxie]

at least the FIA showed some common sense and let it slide that he didn't park the car in parc ferme and he didn't get weighted right after the race, they could easily have disqualified him

Wouldn't it be funny if someone sued FIA over this?

Funny???No!

Don't be surprised if it happens. Many millions of dollars are at stake, and the parc ferme' rules are there because someone, in the past, cheated. I understand that the fans love it, but you cant allow the winner to skip out on parc ferme'.

[Richard]

Who said he did skip on parc ferme? It's common for cars to stop on track after a race for various reasons. They all get taken to the scrutineers afterwards.

[Jonnycraig]

Who said he did skip on parc ferme? It's common for cars to stop on track after a race for various reasons. They all get taken to the scrutineers afterwards.

Presumably the posters thought the fine was for avoiding Parc Ferme, rather than for failing to go to Parc Ferme 'without undue delay'.

[langwadt]

Who said he did skip on parc ferme? It's common for cars to stop on track after a race for various reasons. They all get taken to the scrutineers afterwards.

Presumably the posters thought the fine was for avoiding Parc Ferme, rather than for failing to go to Parc Ferme 'without undue delay'.

I know the fine was for the delay, you could say it wasn't so different from all the car that park at the pit exit but he didn't get weighted.