TD018 2023 - clampdown on flexible wings

[dans79]

A few people here should perhaps not have been so loud about RBR but instead practice what some have preached to wait a few races to see who was actually hit.

A few of us said this would not be the track to see who was hit. You need to look at the maximum DF tracks.

[AR3-GP]

When someone takes a joke literally and then turns it as an argument to support their view i personally discard that opinion, i just wonder why one would then spin it further, at first glance unironically.

FYI, this is how the 30 seconds reference became a talking point of this thread:

Ok so we have our first benchmark:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/hamil ... /10522947/
He says if RedBull doesn't win by 30 seconds somwthing is up..

Hyperbole or logical?

[AR3-GP]

A few people here should perhaps not have been so loud about RBR but instead practice what some have preached to wait a few races to see who was actually hit.

A few of us said this would not be the track to see who was hit. You need to look at the maximum DF tracks.

There are no maximum downforce tracks remaining. Mexico has thin air so the downforce isn't high even though the wings are big. So I guess we wait until Monaco '24?

[PlatinumZealot]

Let’s agree to discard eachothers opinions. Seems the best way forward. He was so full of praise Max was determined to make a point. I guess he didn’t discard Lewis opinion. And to get back on topic. A few people here should perhaps not have been so loud about RBR but instead practice what some have preached to wait a few races to see who was actually hit.

You said it yourself, Max proved his point and was not cruising at any point in the race. I would expect him to pull out a bigger gap. So still not out of the woods. I already acknowledged that it is not conclusive how much the RedBull pace would be affected by this but the balance of the car can sort of be argued... And then it's gets even blurrier because RBR can simply tune out the issues lingering from the TD.. So yeah. Thread is sort of moot. Only the actual designers know whats under the skin.

[organic]

Let’s agree to discard eachothers opinions. Seems the best way forward. He was so full of praise Max was determined to make a point. I guess he didn’t discard Lewis opinion. And to get back on topic. A few people here should perhaps not have been so loud about RBR but instead practice what some have preached to wait a few races to see who was actually hit.

You said it yourself, Max proved his point and was not cruising at any point in the race. I would expect him to pull out a bigger gap. So still not out of the woods. I already acknowledged that it is not conclusive how much the RedBull pace would be affected by this but the balance of the car can sort of be argued... And then it's gets even blurrier because RBR can simply tune out the issues lingering from the TD.. So yeah. Thread is sort of moot. Only the actual designers know whats under the skin.

If you cared to watch the onboards he was very much cruising

[dialtone]

Let’s agree to discard eachothers opinions. Seems the best way forward. He was so full of praise Max was determined to make a point. I guess he didn’t discard Lewis opinion. And to get back on topic. A few people here should perhaps not have been so loud about RBR but instead practice what some have preached to wait a few races to see who was actually hit.

You said it yourself, Max proved his point and was not cruising at any point in the race. I would expect him to pull out a bigger gap. So still not out of the woods. I already acknowledged that it is not conclusive how much the RedBull pace would be affected by this but the balance of the car can sort of be argued... And then it's gets even blurrier because RBR can simply tune out the issues lingering from the TD.. So yeah. Thread is sort of moot. Only the actual designers know whats under the skin.

I have no clue what race you watched man... From quali to the race it was never even close. Max's pace on used tires was better than most other cars on brand new.

[TFSA]

A few people here should perhaps not have been so loud about RBR but instead practice what some have preached to wait a few races to see who was actually hit.

A few of us said this would not be the track to see who was hit. You need to look at the maximum DF tracks.

Maximum downforce tracks usually have a lot of low speed corners and almost no straits with proper top speed. Wings don't flex at low speed - they flex at high speeds. So even with a max DF setup, the wings will never flex properly if the car rarely reaches proper speeds. So that's reverse logic. Monaco is definitely not the track to test this on.

The proper tracks are tracks which both have proper straits (top speed), but also a decent combination of medium to high speed corners, which requires a car to run with some good downforce, but also challenges it use that downforce for both braking at speed, but also navigating at speed.

Suzuka is a decent (read: not great, but decent) track to give an idea. It's doesn't have many straits, but it has quite a few high speed corners and cars usually run with a decent chunk downforce for that reason. Austria and Silverstone would probably be even better.

But at the end of the day, the truth is more likely, that this entire flexi-wing thing is a minor performance differentiator. It's not gonna make or break any team.

[DDopey]

Serious, this still going on. PZ is pulling your leg.

[SiLo]

I drove a couple of current gen cars around this track in Assetto Corsa and the kerbs did not damage the floors.

[basti313]

A few people here should perhaps not have been so loud about RBR but instead practice what some have preached to wait a few races to see who was actually hit.

A few of us said this would not be the track to see who was hit. You need to look at the maximum DF tracks.

Maximum downforce tracks usually have a lot of low speed corners and almost no straits with proper top speed. Wings don't flex at low speed - they flex at high speeds. So even with a max DF setup, the wings will never flex properly if the car rarely reaches proper speeds. So that's reverse logic. Monaco is definitely not the track to test this on.

The proper tracks are tracks which both have proper straits (top speed), but also a decent combination of medium to high speed corners, which requires a car to run with some good downforce, but also challenges it use that downforce for both braking at speed, but also navigating at speed.

Suzuka is a decent (read: not great, but decent) track to give an idea. It's doesn't have many straits, but it has quite a few high speed corners and cars usually run with a decent chunk downforce for that reason. Austria and Silverstone would probably be even better.

But at the end of the day, the truth is more likely, that this entire flexi-wing thing is a minor performance differentiator. It's not gonna make or break any team.

I agree on the last point and on the tracks. I would just add, that what you need is a track with some med to high downforce and a long straight to bend the wings. So I agree on the tracks above and this is why I think Qatar might also be good to judge what happened.

To me it is interesting that Merc was clearly behind McLaren. This was not the case before on tracks where bending might play a role. So I think Qatar and Austin will be again interesting on this point.

[organic]

Isn't looking at changes in top speed despite similar wing levels a good determinant of whether flexible wings have been clamped down on with certain teams?

[dans79]

Isn't looking at changes in top speed despite similar wing levels a good determinant of whether flexible wings have been clamped down on with certain teams?

Not really, because teams will change deployment from track to track to minimize lap time.

[KimiRai]

The only thing so far that appears to be confirmed is that the TD killed the Aston. Other cars is debatable, possibly Merc being the second most affected, but not as clear as the former yet.

[napoleon1981]

Let’s agree to discard eachothers opinions. Seems the best way forward. He was so full of praise Max was determined to make a point. I guess he didn’t discard Lewis opinion. And to get back on topic. A few people here should perhaps not have been so loud about RBR but instead practice what some have preached to wait a few races to see who was actually hit.

You said it yourself, Max proved his point and was not cruising at any point in the race. I would expect him to pull out a bigger gap. So still not out of the woods. I already acknowledged that it is not conclusive how much the RedBull pace would be affected by this but the balance of the car can sort of be argued... And then it's gets even blurrier because RBR can simply tune out the issues lingering from the TD.. So yeah. Thread is sort of moot. Only the actual designers know whats under the skin.

I have no clue what race you watched man... From quali to the race it was never even close. Max's pace on used tires was better than most other cars on brand new.

I think it was mentioned that the 0.5s quali gap was the biggest it had been in 20 years at Suzuka. This was clear and utter dominance. No need to stress the car during the race to impress more.

[bluechris]

You said it yourself, Max proved his point and was not cruising at any point in the race. I would expect him to pull out a bigger gap. So still not out of the woods. I already acknowledged that it is not conclusive how much the RedBull pace would be affected by this but the balance of the car can sort of be argued... And then it's gets even blurrier because RBR can simply tune out the issues lingering from the TD.. So yeah. Thread is sort of moot. Only the actual designers know whats under the skin.

I have no clue what race you watched man... From quali to the race it was never even close. Max's pace on used tires was better than most other cars on brand new.

I think it was mentioned that the 0.5s quali gap was the biggest it had been in 20 years at Suzuka. This was clear and utter dominance. No need to stress the car during the race to impress more.

This is my sense also. RB and Max was cruising more than half of the race.