Has Max been a verryyy naughty boy?

[Ciro Pabón]

I don't listen behind doors. That's unpolite and innecesary. Besides, I never make mistakes...

What I find funny is what took so long for Mosley to realize that, if he already knew all the circumstances.

I find a little pathetic that he says that "he has had letters from clubs representing 85 votes at the General Assembly (this is slightly less than half of the votes that will be cast) and says that 13 of them suggested that he should resign while 62 urged him to stay."

I quote myself:

In the last "true" election, Mr. Ballestre designated Ecclestone as his personal delegate to get him the votes. Ballestre was convinced, up to the day of the election that he had 60% of the votes. Meanwhile, Ecclestone was busy behind curtains getting votes for his candidate, Mr. Mosley.

Ballestre was "livid" when the election took place and he realized that he had been duped.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5359&start=232

However, it could be that Mosley has already made an arrangement with Bernie Ecclestone, precisely to come public and keep us thinking the is against him. That's what they did last time.

This has been a good year for my 2005 predictions. The oil is at 130 dollars the barrel, the subprime lending finally exploded and cars are becoming the dinosaurs of this age. I don't doubt now that we'll see the first cheap ultralights in a short time. Btw, buy gold...

[gcdugas]

Isn't he basically equating himself with the FIA? F1 need not suffer the consequences of a couple of aging men in a turf battle, to be frank. I'd say to the clubs that make up FIA that they need to get organised themselves, go to the manufacturers and privateers (also potential ones) and for once do something on their own accord. Frankly I don't even care anymore if the sport is called Formula One, as long as it carries the tradition and accommodates the future. Mosley and Ecclestone can do all the bilateral agreements their hearts desire, the rest of us need not be involved.

Except for the last line I agree. What Mosley and Ecclestone can do is threaten all the circuit owners that they will be ruined if they cut any side deals with a rival series, with the manufacturers directly, with sponsors directly, with any media or TV outlets directly, with insurers directly etc. Ecclestone has seen the light and he knows that there is only so much he can bleed the series for via the tracks, television etc. He knows that right now it is at the limit. He is obligated to a 20 car grid and the "third car" solution is full of lethal poison and could even be a breach as it could be argued that 20 cars means ten teams. Otherwise why not have one team with 20 cars... would that satisfy Bernie's obligations? I think not. Bernie must avoid STR's collapse at all costs. And the way he avoids it cannot harm Williams or Force India either. The new Concorde must address all of this and Bernie simply will have to seperate with some of his precious cash. But Bernie knows that 35% of something big is better that 60% of something small. He will try to gauge just where the two lines meet at a maximum return. He cannot starve off the second tier or private teams. Even Red Bull could pull the plug if they don't deem their ROI to be in line with the value of their exposure.

But the larger point is that Max is indeed equating himself with the FIA and that is not the case. If Max had a stroke tomorrow the FIA would still be here the day after that. Let's not kid oursleves. There are plenty of savvy people who are more than able to handle the "complexities". And I have long advocated that the teams, since they are laying out the cash, should have more of a determinative role in the regulations and governing the sport.

And last of all, how implausible is it for Max, who has a total history of abusing the teams and the sport with his dictatorial impositions, now claiming to be the "noble one" out to save them. This letter is absolutely laughable on its face. That is like Dick Cheney claiming that he must represent the tortured political prisoners at Guantanamo because he alone "cares". LOL Don't make me sick. And that is what Max is trying to float.

I would trust Bernie a thousand more than Max. At least you know Bernie wants the money. Max wants the power, power to enact his goofy vision for limited wind tunnel time, engine freezes, power to make arbitrary tech regs right, left and canter, power to set goofy budget caps, power to exercise vindicative retribution on his enemies, power to install his puppets everywhere and rig his kangaroo courts to secure outcomes etc. Max abused and ran off Michelin for Bridgestone. And the Indy 2005 six car race fiasco was solely his fault as Bernie pleaded with him on the phone to put in the chicane so the fans could have a race to watch. Max has brought forth these rules that inhibit passing. Why can GP2 cars and A1GP cars pass? The high front wing that Max has raised twice in recent times is 80% responsible as it has zero ground effects that enable cars to follow closely in dirty air.

The FIA member clubs and the teams can surely find a dozen men that are up to the task. Max's savior complex is a delusion. Do you really think the teams, the manufacturers, or the FIA membership are going to let all the money walk out the door when negotiating a new Concorde agreement with Bernie? If the sweetheart deal that Bernie has for the commercial rights is any indicator of Max's negotiating skill, I say bring on someone else, anyone else. And Max has the gall to suggest that only he is up to the task? Ugh....

[WhiteBlue]

... Ecclestone has seen the light and he knows that there is only so much he can bleed the series for via the tracks, television etc. He knows that right now it is at the limit. He is obligated to a 20 car grid and the "third car" solution is full of lethal poison and could even be a breach as it could be argued that 20 cars means ten teams. Otherwise why not have one team with 20 cars......

all these obligations are really immaterial if something new replaces the old concord order. Bernie will never be happy until he alone decides what is happening in F1. he wants to own it 100%. no other powers but his. this has always been his ultimate goal. like all dictators before he has even told it before.

Bernies "Mein Kampf" or "Little red book" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/f ... ge_id=1879

"I hate democracy as a political system," Ecclestone continues. "It stops you getting things done. I think people should have decisions made for them."

[gcdugas]

... Ecclestone has seen the light and he knows that there is only so much he can bleed the series for via the tracks, television etc. He knows that right now it is at the limit. He is obligated to a 20 car grid and the "third car" solution is full of lethal poison and could even be a breach as it could be argued that 20 cars means ten teams. Otherwise why not have one team with 20 cars......

all these obligations are really immaterial if something new replaces the old concord order. Bernie will never be happy until he alone decides what is happening in F1. he wants to own it 100%. no other powers but his. this has always been his ultimate goal. like all dictators before he has even told it before.

Bernies "Mein Kampf" or "Little red book" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/f ... ge_id=1879

"I hate democracy as a political system," Ecclestone continues. "It stops you getting things done. I think people should have decisions made for them."

Thank you for the link. Though I had read it before it had a link to this article which I found very interesting. We needed just a little more wind though.

Yes, I know that Bernie quote and it was given in the context of hating committee run deals when every Tom, Dick, and Harry feels he has to say something when in fact they really have nothing of substance to add. And we all know that having a strong lead designer (Byrne, Newey etc.) is better than having a committee (Toyota).

Track contracts, television contracts etc. have little bearing on the new Concorde document other than the amount to be divided. The duration, conditions, stipulations etc. all are binding no matter the relationship between FOM and the teams commercially.

[John Stitch]

Ciro, I can't see how Bernie profits from Max concluding his term early. Why would he not play his game at the time when succession will come anyway?.....................

Really the only thing that would be nice to have would be the right to determine the race venues without FIA interference and the have change of control of FOM without FIA placet. would that be a motivation to set up Max? .........................

A Gold Star for this man! =D>

[John Stitch]

..............However, it could be that Mosley has already made an arrangement with Bernie Ecclestone, precisely to come public and keep us thinking the is against him. That's what they did last time.................

History repeating itself, a good observation.

[John Stitch]

Something has just come to mind.

It would seem that “the video” was shot on a Friday afternoon. It appeared in the paper on following Sunday morning. That, to me, is a very short lead-time.

If the video was shot by someone other than the NotW or without their prior involvement would they have been able to “Stop the Presses” to publish the story?

Is there anyone with Fleet Street knowledge here?

My conjecture is that if the NotW did not shoot (no pun intended) the video there must have some collusion between them and whoever did.

[WhiteBlue]

Something has just come to mind.

It would seem that “the video” was shot on a Friday afternoon. It appeared in the paper on following Sunday morning. That, to me, is a very short lead-time.

If the video was shot by someone other than the NotW or without their prior involvement would they have been able to “Stop the Presses” to publish the story?

Is there anyone with Fleet Street knowledge here?

My conjecture is that if the NotW did not shoot (no pun intended) the video there must have some collusion between them and whoever did.

Hallo RM, welcome to F1technical!

if I remember it right you were initially convinced that the hookers did this for money when this was discussed and that a setup by a third party was not likely. have you changed your mind?

Auto motor sport have a close connection to Mosley. They claimed that the video was at NOTW 2 hours after the session ended.

My observation on that short time was that it would not been possible to edit a 5 hour video in such a short time. that means the trappers must have had trust in NOTW to give them the material unedited. hence it was a planned operation between NOTW and the trappers. and you have Bernie saying in February 2008 "F1 needs more sex scandals".

best guess is that Bernie knew about Max's sport, had him observed and had NOTW on standby. Murdoch will have been delited to blow Mosley away for the Times law suit.

[John Stitch]

Well i knew that would blow my cover.

I joined for the technical side of things but cant resist a bit of conspiracy theory when it comes to Bernie and Max.

[Ciro Pabón]

I think NOWT is a Murdoch paper. Some time ago we theorized it could be because of the Jackie Stewart/Silverstone thing and we hoped for a briton candidate for FIA presidency.

Welcome Jhon, by all means.

[zac510]

I have a contact in News Ltd. It is simple to do a turnaround of an article from Friday to a Sunday print. That's news (or gossip, at least) - they do that every day!

As for drawing Murdoch/revenge/etc connections, there's no point. The story was huge enough that any newspaper would have printed it and gained instant success and sales. NoTW could have easily acted alone in order to reap the benefits of this huge story.

[WhiteBlue]

A bit more documentation for starters while the next act of the Mosley saga unfolds

http://uk.reuters.com/article/motorSpor ... ws&rpc=401
http://www.f1technical.net/news/9148
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20363.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -quit.html

and some of the more informative bits

Newspapers in Britain are reporting that an agent of MI5, Britain's secret Security Service, has resigned after it emerged that his wife organised the News of the World photographs and video of FIA President Max Mosley's sexual adventures. The woman is alleged to be a 38-year-old former model who works as a professional dominatrix and is based in the Milton Keynes area. The suggestion is that she married the MI5 operative last year and that he was employed as "a watcher", a member of the service's surveillance units. It is believed that he was in the military before joining MI5...Max Mosley said some time ago that he had been the victim of a surveillance by "a group specialising in such things for reasons and clients as yet unknown"...

...The session is alleged to have involved prostitutes dressed as German officers and camp inmates. It was secretly caught on video by one of the call girls, who used the name Mistress Abi. Sources said it was Abi’s husband who worked for MI5 and that she sold the story to the News of the World newspaper for an undisclosed sum. According to the paper, Mistress Abi wore a Luftwaffe uniform during the session and oversaw beatings of Mosley...

We are getting more information that is sounding plausible from the Mosley sting. It is known for some time that the sex romp was filmed on the inside by portable nano cameras of which one was according to above reports carried by Mistress Abi. It is also known that at the same time an outside camera was operated from a car that itself was filmed by a CCTV installation and its license plate recorded.

the connection of these known facts makes a husband/wife operation more than a bit likely. Would an MI5 spy be forced to retire due to his wifes crimes and misconduct in the United Kingdom? I don't think so. Would he be retired immediately if he used his service resources (like his car and cameras) for his own little scheme to make some NotW/F1 money? Very likely!!!

So we now probably have Mistress Abi, her valiant MI5 husband and Mistress Swisch (Mosleys confidante) involved in setting him up for the NotW media coup to get Bernie the much needed sex scandal in F1. The scandal which would allow the ringmaster to take control of F1 from the FIA in the shambles that would follow a quick resignation. Looking from that angle it all makes perfect sense.

Our clever conspirators only forgot to read the FIA statutes that make it very difficult to dispose of a president without a lengthy democratic procedure. that isn't surprising because Bernie isn't such a good lawyer or democrate. he prefers to make his deals in small circles and grab as much power as possible for himself by deception and lying as we know from the installation of the present president.

It looks to me that a big part of the coup has already failed as Mosley has refused to resign and has uncovered the plot. hopefully this will give the clubs organized in the FIA the needed time to find a successor who will replace Mosley and will not be susceptible to Ecclestones machinations.

from this perspective it isn't so important how the general assembly decides about Mosley on 3rd June. if Mosley gets voted out an immediate replacement seems to be unlikely. it is more likely that there will again be a lengthy process to determine the successor. in the meantime it would be difficult for a remaining FIA official acting as Ecclestones mole to do a deal for him.

I must say that I am not too unhappy about this development. It gives Mosley time to conduct his law suit against NotW. This court procedure should lead to some affidavits or sworn testimonies of the conspirators on the working level. with those people in a tight corner we may even learn who has the responsibility for the sting and who paid the money.

Public knowledge about the details of the operation could even unseat someone as entranched as Ecclestone. It largely depends of the corporate code of conduct of CVC, the private equity group that owns the commercial rights of F1. Ecclestone could be untenable if the details of all his actions would come out. Private equity isn't very sensitive to moral issues but the company probably uses a great deal of money from institutions like retirement funds. those ultimate investors in F1 could become a bit embarrassed by the whole affair.

So all together not so bad prospects that F1 could eventually get rid of a very shady deal maker and his long term legal assistant.

http://www.fia.com/resources/documents/ ... ter_gb.pdf
The FIA has published the Mosley letter!

[Mr Alcatraz]

I have considered Bernie a prime suspect from the beginning. The man is professionally perverted! He will use any platform to promote revenue for F1, to the point of betraying his own dignity. I think the perp' of this incursion at the very end is someone that has an axe to grind with Max, in regard to Max's tendency to use his authority to insure that Great Briton is not in fact or perception holding Autocratic sway, as opposed to Continental teams in all that is Grand Prix Racing. He has consistently made decisions that seem to pit him against a British entity. Ron (stepney-gate) SirJYS. rebuffing the Scot in no uncertain and actually rude dismissive comments. Ferrari International Assistance (FIA), and etc. In closing my observation is that Max has played his hand pretty darn well. Personally I believe he will serve out his term MHO

[WhiteBlue]

I have found an interesting little connection to watch on CVC's and the FIA web sites.

Andrew Goodsell is the CEO of the British AA which is a member organization of the FIA and is owned by CVC.

http://www.cvc.com/Content/En/OurCompan ... x?PCID=777
http://www.fia.com/thefia/Membership/Eu ... urope.html

I wouldn't be surprised if this guy would play a key role in the 3rd June proceedings.

[ben_watkins]

So is it war? Max vs Bernie..

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67590

and

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx ... 9&PO=42699

Let battle commence! My money's on Bernie, even though he's got a reach, height and weight disadvantage..