About the F1 Resource Restriction Agreement

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bhall
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Re: About the F1 Resource Restriction Agreement

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WhiteBlue wrote:[...]
Bernie has told reporters in Abu Dhabi that he will offer $500k to all whistle blowers who report on cheating the budget.
[...]
That's hysterical. Easily the funniest thing I've read today.

Richard
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Re: About the F1 Resource Restriction Agreement

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WhiteBlue wrote: You cannot hide the purpose of F1 aerodynamics, believe me.
Why have a whistle blower? It would all be open and above board. There are a lot of academic papers investigating F1 CFD. http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl= ... 5&as_sdtp=

One of them might happen to be about coanda exhausts and an F1 team might happen to pay £20k for the primary data and some "consultancy" to interpret the data. That's a lot of money for an academic, and cheap for the F1 team. Everyone's a winner.

The fact they happen to work at the "FIAT Institute of automotive engineering" at Milan University is also public knowledge. How generous of Fiat to sponsor a university to train the next generation of engineers.

That's exactly how McLaren created the J damper. Malcolm Smith of the University of Cambridge gave an open lecture to the Society of Instrument and Control Engineers (SICE)? Well that's free information. Lets say McLaren paid £20k for 20 days consultancy and show it in the RRA? Nothing wrong there. The result is that McLaren could show a cost of £20k for a J damper and it would be fully verifiable and open to auditing.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: About the F1 Resource Restriction Agreement

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You can deal with that by having rules of publication. If a team wants to spend any money on academic resources the results of the associated research resources cannot be private. Everything has to be published. So private consultancy would simply not be allowed for an institution that would be considered a relevant development resource. I'm still mainly focussed on aerodynamics. I don't think that suspension development is an issue under cost control considerations. So such resources could be used for consultancy IMO.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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WhiteBlue
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Re: About the F1 Resource Restriction Agreement

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bhallg2k wrote:
WhiteBlue wrote:[...]Bernie has told reporters in Abu Dhabi that he will offer $500k to all whistle blowers who report on cheating the budget.[...]
That's hysterical. Easily the funniest thing I've read today.
What is so funny about that? Perhaps I'm not getting your source of amusement.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

bhall
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Re: About the F1 Resource Restriction Agreement

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That the man who paid off Gerhard Gribkowski to the tune of $44 million to grease a business transaction in his favor now claims he's going to reward those who would blow the whistle on similarly underhanded tactics is just laughable. Bernie Ecclestone is the dirtiest player in the game. I don't trust him as far as I can throw him, and I imagine I could heave his frail ass pretty far.

Let his meal ticket Ferrari get caught flouting a cost cap Red Bull Technology-style. Bernie Ecclestone will be the first in line to pay a whistle blower a million just too keep it quiet.

Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if he ended up helping teams cheat a budget cap. This man cannot be trusted for any reason.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: About the F1 Resource Restriction Agreement

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I disagree with that theory. Bernie does everything for money. Controlled budgets would get the teams off his neck pressurizing him for more money all the time. He thinks those clowns are wasting all the nice billions he is squeezing from us anyway. So if the teams become suddenly profitable and more manufacturers show up and invest money into the series nothing better could happen to the Bernhard. He knows very well which side of the bread is buttered. So trust him to have it all figured out.
I agree with Bernie being a ridiculous address for whistle blowers. Let him pay the rewards and let the whistle blowers report to the FiA. That whould be much more appropriate.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

bhall
bhall
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Re: About the F1 Resource Restriction Agreement

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"So trust [Ecclestone] to have it all figured out"?

I stand corrected. His proposal to reward whistleblowers is, in fact, not the funniest thing I've read today.

astracrazy
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Re: About the F1 Resource Restriction Agreement

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no you can trust Bernie with this. He only cares about money and mostly when it benefits him. if he can limit what the teams spends he has no reason to give them more money than he needs to

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WhiteBlue
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Re: About the F1 Resource Restriction Agreement

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Todt speaks on Autosport about cost control:
Jean Todt wrote:We have to do things step by step. I am in favour of reducing the costs, improving the show, and implementing new technologies. So now we are seeing that we are on the way to having these working groups, advisory strategy group and the F1 Commission, and for me it has to be dealt with inside of those groups. As soon as we are able to do it, we will have a democratic way. No dictatorship. No pressure to do something. We will sit altogether and then we will do what the majority will decide on, which I feel is the most transparent way to run our business.

It will be unfair to have a cost restriction on chassis and do nothing on the engine. Our people have been working very hard with expert companies like Deloitte, KPMG, and other audit companies to see. First I had some doubts that we could do a good job. Now we know we can do a good job. But we have to include the engines. There are still some ongoing discussions. Once we have covered the engine situation, we should be ready to propose something by 2014. And by 2013 with our new groups, with the Concorde Agreement, we should be able to follow the protocol. So it should not be one team is against, one team is in favour. The majority will be able to guide the future of the sport.
Autosport wrote:Todt has reiterated that he wants to ultimately see costs reduced by one third over the next few years.
Jean Todt wrote:How much do we want to control? I hear $250 million. Who can afford $250 million? What is the situation for teams who are producing one engine? There are so many things I read which I am sorry to say are a bit superficial. We must get into the detail. Who is spending $250 million? Probably more than one team. But even if it is three or four, what about the other eight teams? We have to address the problem overall and I hope people will have the right concern to address it. At the end of the day, for me, democracy means that we must make shared decisions. The teams invest money, but do we need to have 150 people or 200 people in a wind tunnel to have a good show? I don't think so. I really hope that people will be happy to realise and undertake some drastic reduction in costs.
Very sensible ideas! So if we have three teams spending $250m the target would be to have that come down to $165m. If an engine company like Mercedes in Brixworth spends $75m now it would come down to $50m. So a manufacturer team like Merc or Ferrari would have a combined budget of $215m. That is a far cry from the $400m+ they used to have six years ago. Perhaps they will agree to reduce it a bit further once they see that profitability would improve.

It is good to see that the FiA have looked into the issue and is committed to drive the issue forward. It is also very good to have Todt come forward and say that budget control on both chassis and engines is feasible and necessary.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)


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WhiteBlue
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Re: About the F1 Resource Restriction Agreement

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Sure! People will always cheat. The whole point is that they will not get away with it. In the end the cheaters will be discovered and severely punished. No difference to cheating on a technical basis or rigging a crash to let someone else win a race. Those things happen, but the systems deals with them.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

bhall
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Re: About the F1 Resource Restriction Agreement

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Whatever you say, chief. If you can look at that, a case in which "the system" failed miserably, a still believe a budget cap will work in F1, well, I just don't know what to tell you.

Give my regards to Santa Claus.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: About the F1 Resource Restriction Agreement

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We only have to wait and see. The budget restrictions will come because there is no real alternative. People in F1 have no desire to go back to engines that cost half of their budget or $200m a year. The fans are tired of the silly aero games and want no more engine freeze. The only way out of spiralling costs are restrictions.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

bhall
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Re: About the F1 Resource Restriction Agreement

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How lucky we are to have someone with such profound insight that he can look into the future and into the hearts of others with absolute clarity.

(I give up. I'll leave you to your world, which is evidently one where everyone is always honest; no one is ever wrong; everything is always fair; and justice always wins the day.)

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WhiteBlue
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Re: About the F1 Resource Restriction Agreement

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Relax, I just post my opinion and you post yours. As I said we just have to wait to see what will happen. In do respect your view but I simply think that it will not happen the way you see it. So be patient and bear with me.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)