Red Bull RB7 Renault

[ESPImperium]

Ive been looking at this pic tonight:



See the black things high up on the side pods, next to the R of Red. Remember post 2008 rules and the old Shark Gills being banned, but there has been some loopholes, especially the ones beside the drivers head and the ones that Ferarri had last year with the F10.

I think that Newey has found a loophole again, that loophone, Mesh interwoven into the Carbon layup of the engine/sidepod cover in that area. Think about it, its not illegal and the potential cooling advantages must be huge, if this is what im seeing.

[Robbobnob]

segedunum wrote:

The Red Bull wasn't really that kind to its tyres last season. The car was designed more to get heat into the tyres fairly quickly, they got themselves into a lead early on and then they managed their pace carefully. This year they've obviously thought very carefully about the drop off in the Pirellis as the consistent laps that Webber did in the 1:23s versus everyone else as they gradually dropped off, or in some cases nosedived, demonstrated.

Have you forgotten Mark completing most of a GP on a set of tires no-one thought would last that long especially as he was driving the wheels off it at the same time? (was it Hungary?)

not to mention Vettel at Monza.... its a simple fact the more down force there is the kinder your car will be on tires

[forty-two]

Ive been looking at this pic tonight:



See the black things high up on the side pods, next to the R of Red. Remember post 2008 rules and the old Shark Gills being banned, but there has been some loopholes, especially the ones beside the drivers head and the ones that Ferarri had last year with the F10.

I think that Newey has found a loophole again, that loophone, Mesh interwoven into the Carbon layup of the engine/sidepod cover in that area. Think about it, its not illegal and the potential cooling advantages must be huge, if this is what im seeing.

Excellent lateral thinking there ESP, I think you might be onto something. That could potentially be a massive advantage.

[Giblet]

If that is the case which seems plausible, it will be on every car by the first update. Very smart if that is indeed what's up.

[feynman]

Bodywork in that area has to be a closed curved surface within a proscribed minimum radius of 75mm.
Mesh holes with a 1 or 2mm radius would be in violation of the bodywork regs, no?

Although I wonder if you could so some sort of topological trick like the gill-slit from last year, and lead a slit from the exhaust all the way into a comb pattern on a panel.

They already dump a lot of heat/air out the big hole at the back of the car, not sure what the gain/purpose would be here.

Awaits better photography ... (is it my imagination or has this year been the absolute worst ever for decent, useful, clear pictures of cars?)

[forty-two]

Bodywork in that area has to be a closed curved surface within a proscribed minimum radius of 75mm.
Mesh holes with a 1 or 2mm radius would be in violation of the bodywork regs, no?

Although I wonder if you could so some sort of topological trick like the gill-slit from last year, and lead a slit from the exhaust all the way into a comb pattern on a panel.

They already dump a lot of heat/air out the big hole at the back of the car, not sure what the gain/purpose would be here.

Awaits better photography ... (is it my imagination or has this year been the absolute worst ever for decent, useful, clear pictures of cars?)

Just an idea off the top of my bonce, but what if they used a layup method which was heat dependant, such that when it's nice and cool it's closed, but if it's roasting hot at 600 degrees or so, it begins to open it's weave? Sure this would make is significantly less "porous" and indeed strong, but I imagine it'd be worth it.

If they could shed truckloads of hot air through that, they wouldn't need the massive cooling hole at the back. Perhaps they were testing the newer bigger hole at the back as a contingiency in case it's too risky?

Edit Typo

[feynman]

A Red Bull car that uses fancy carbon to behave one way sat in the scrutineers bay, and quite another way out on track .... where do you get such notions ????

[Tamburello]

A Red Bull car that uses fancy carbon to behave one way sat in the scrutineers bay, and quite another way out on track .... where do you get such notions ????

from the sour grapers at McLaren?

[SoliRossi]

Soem great back and forward in this thread. This car certainly generates lots of opinions and discussion.

Regarding the Renault engine, there was an earlier post that suggested it was smaller than the other engines, I was under the impression that the engine sizes were stipulated by the regs. Ie all the same size.

The renault apparently uses less fuel and has better cooling properties, but is down on power.

It would seem that RBR, i trying tos ecure a Merc donk for 2 consecutive years felt that it was better to have that power and sacrifice the other options. As was pointed out earlier, part of the reason the Renault is better on fuel is its reduction in power.

But they have got the whole package to win championships as is, but as if they would not have shelved Renault for Merc and the Merc KERS. That KERS is superb.

[shadowkhas]

But they have got the whole package to win championships as is, but as if they would not have shelved Renault for Merc and the Merc KERS. That KERS is superb.

I've always wondered: What makes one company's KERS better than another's? Is it packaging? Cooling properties? What gives?

[raymondu999]

Efficiency I don't think is a major issue, as I read in F1-Racing magazine that even now, 50% efficiency means that you can run today's KERS spec fully. (it only uses 50% of the energy generated under braking)
Packaging, cooling, would be obvious benefits. Smaller, lighter packages that could benefit CoG, and weight savings for ballast moving.

[feynman]

The new wrinkle this year for the tightly packaged RB7 is trying to reliably fit KERS in there.

Anyone want to humour a wild suggestion that Newey been digging about and those black panels are Gordon Murray BT46 style flush-mounted bodywork heat-exchanger panels?



Murray tried to cool a whole car with them and came up short, but I wonder if they could help keep a pair of KERS battery packs cool, without having to stick something as uncouth as draggy cooling inlets into the celebrated Newey airflow.

[raymondu999]

I think those should still reliably HELP cooling, though those might not be able to cool a car entirely on its own, no?

[feynman]

No, they wouldn't come close to cooling a whole car, as Murray soon found out when he tried it.

But a KERS battery pack, or even as an auxiliary part of a KERS battery mixed cooling solution, who knows. The RB7 sidepods and backend certainly didn't seem to get much fatter this year despite having KERS rammed in there.

[raymondu999]

Yes, they won't come close to cooling a whole car on their own. BUT. Would the addition of those HELP with cooling? Don't forget they have that mammoth exhaust hole at the back of the engine cover.