Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
enkidu1978
enkidu1978
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Joined: 11 Jun 2014, 12:24

Re: Honda Power Unit

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taperoo2k wrote:
erlik wrote:Will they run engine in full or that quli mode until the end of the test? I guess it would be good to know if engine can run at full power at all before Melbourne.... ? Or it is just our/jurno hopes that Honda is in detuned mode?
They might turn the power up before the test ends, though tbh it probably won't happen until the Free practise sessions in Melbourne. That's assuming they've run the power unit detuned to give McLaren a chance to get the chassis sorted for the first race. Could be that Honda and McLaren are keeping the powder dry for now, so that when they do run the PU in anger it will either be a PR triumph (after last year) or a PR nightmare (if the PU turns into shrapnel).
I'm kinda hoping the PR triumph, I'm sure they would be gathering enough data from these runs to know just how much they can tweak the maps ready for the start of the season. At least there will be good fireworks if it all goes wrong lol

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Chene_Mostert
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Joined: 30 Mar 2014, 16:50

Re: Honda Power Unit

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The McLaren Honda has really surprised me during this second test.
If wider bodywork was all it took to get the reliability in order, someone at McLaren needs to be fired :oops:
"Science at its best is an open-minded method of inquiry, not a belief system." - Rupert Sheldrake

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DiogoBrand
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Joined: 14 May 2015, 19:02
Location: Brazil

Re: Honda Power Unit

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I really don't see a reason to run the engine detuned for testing. Why would they risk damaging a PU unit during the season, when they have to make them last an average of 5 races instead of now, when they can blow as many engines as they want?

enkidu1978
enkidu1978
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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DiogoBrand wrote:I really don't see a reason to run the engine detuned for testing. Why would they risk damaging a PU unit during the season, when they have to make them last an average of 5 races instead of now, when they can blow as many engines as they want?
I always thought its best to get the data from oil samples, wear or parts etc from a used engine rather than a blown up one. They will then examine all parts back at the factory and see if it correlates to their bench tested engine then finalise the map for Australia?

erlik
erlik
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Joined: 24 Jan 2014, 15:43

Re: Honda Power Unit

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DiogoBrand wrote:I really don't see a reason to run the engine detuned for testing. Why would they risk damaging a PU unit during the season, when they have to make them last an average of 5 races instead of now, when they can blow as many engines as they want?
Probably not to waste time replacing blown engine instead of testing chassis and many other useful thing. In Melbourne they might blow some engine if they are sure chassis works as predicted...

taperoo2k
taperoo2k
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Joined: 02 Mar 2012, 17:33

Re: Honda Power Unit

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DiogoBrand wrote:I really don't see a reason to run the engine detuned for testing. Why would they risk damaging a PU unit during the season, when they have to make them last an average of 5 races instead of now, when they can blow as many engines as they want?
It's fairly simple - If they run the PU's at full tilt and they fail then that means less time on track (PU changes, repair damage to chassis) to gather useful data on a whole range of things. I'm sure Honda will push the aggressiveness of the PU in the first race. Honda may have tested one or two PU's on the dyno's to destruction, to see how far they can push a PU before it fails. Better to do that behind closed doors than in testing. Also blowing as many as they want, likely won't achieve much and cost a lot of money. Money better spent on those token upgrades and 2017.

Petroltorque
Petroltorque
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Joined: 27 Jul 2011, 18:18

Re: Honda Power Unit

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In short there is nothing to be learnt from from molten mass. Testing is an experiment. The team controls predictor variables in order to find the outcome variables. To assess chassis balance, tyre wear, rake, engine mapping you need a reliable PU.

Mansell89
Mansell89
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Joined: 22 Feb 2015, 19:21

Re: Honda Power Unit

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So, 8 days of testing done, 6 out of those 8 highly reliable, but quite some way down the pecking order time-wise.

How do we read it?

Conservative energy modes to get data and get reliable first ?

Reliability better but an engine that is still woefully underpowered?

A bit of both?

Upgrade at Melborne to pleasantly surprise?

Or none of those things?

I'm certainly not quite sure what to make- initially I was pleased with reliability, but then the rumours of detuned engines and not truly being the 2016 running makes me both concerned for reliability, but hoping that it might mean a better performance in Melbourne. I guess all will be revealed in two weeks...

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DiogoBrand
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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I'm not saying they should run engines over the limit during testing already expecting them to blow. What I am saying is that they shouldn't run them on a lower performance mode than they will during the season, otherwise they may have some engine malfunctions during the season, when it's way more costly. And about track time, what they could do is run an entire day in a 'safe' mode, and then at the end of the test day run it at full beans, so if there is a malfunction they'd have the whole night to change the unit.

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nevill3
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Joined: 11 Feb 2014, 21:31
Location: Monaco

Re: Honda Power Unit

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McLaren stated early on that they had identified a problem part that could potentially cause a failure but a solution for the problem part was still being manufactured and would not be available until later....I cannot find the quote at the moment, but maybe they have not had the upgraded part yet
Sent from my Commodore PET in 1978

bill shoe
bill shoe
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Joined: 19 Nov 2008, 08:18
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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DiogoBrand wrote:I'm not saying they should run engines over the limit during testing already expecting them to blow. What I am saying is that they shouldn't run them on a lower performance mode than they will during the season, otherwise they may have some engine malfunctions during the season, when it's way more costly. And about track time, what they could do is run an entire day in a 'safe' mode, and then at the end of the test day run it at full beans, so if there is a malfunction they'd have the whole night to change the unit.
If they are running the powertrain a bit more conservative than intended during race weekends, it could be due to scarce track test time.

They can run complete powertrains on sophisticated dynos, and they can do in-car powertrain runs on the AVL-type rolling road chassis dynos. So maybe a high-confidence way to thrash a large number of engines quickly.

Vehicle dynamics in terms of on-track aero and handling traits can be simulated, but not as reliably as the engine stuff, so scarce track time gets focused on vehicle dynamics performance rather than powertrain reliability.

For this to work you need a minimum baseline level of powertrain reliability, plus confidence in the correlation between on-track powertrain stress vs on-dyno stress. Honda may have reached that level of confidence in their program.

Mercedes probably did dyno-based powertrain testing that was equivalent to 70 round trips to the moon before the on-track testing at Barcelona even started.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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THe engine can always be run on the dyno, but a chassis can on be run on the track, so it makes sense to play it safe in these limited days of testing and fine tune the chassis as much as possible. The guys over at Sakura will be bringing a new spec engine anyway so no point blowing up this one and destroying the chassis with it.
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Cannonballer
Cannonballer
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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DiogoBrand wrote:I'm not saying they should run engines over the limit during testing already expecting them to blow. What I am saying is that they shouldn't run them on a lower performance mode than they will during the season, otherwise they may have some engine malfunctions during the season, when it's way more costly. And about track time, what they could do is run an entire day in a 'safe' mode, and then at the end of the test day run it at full beans, so if there is a malfunction they'd have the whole night to change the unit.
Because testing is more important to McLaren than races in the season...
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noname
noname
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Joined: 13 Feb 2009, 11:55
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Re: Honda Power Unit

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DiogoBrand wrote:(...) so if there is a malfunction they'd have the whole night to change the unit.
This would work if they would have enough spare engines. I am afraid that is not the case.

hurril
hurril
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Joined: 07 Oct 2014, 13:02

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Cannonballer wrote:
DiogoBrand wrote:I'm not saying they should run engines over the limit during testing already expecting them to blow. What I am saying is that they shouldn't run them on a lower performance mode than they will during the season, otherwise they may have some engine malfunctions during the season, when it's way more costly. And about track time, what they could do is run an entire day in a 'safe' mode, and then at the end of the test day run it at full beans, so if there is a malfunction they'd have the whole night to change the unit.
Because testing is more important to McLaren than races in the season...
Well there's a ton of different things to test too.