Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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Yes, but look at their barn-door diffuser. That thing is just so big it starves at high ride heights, and that's a big reason why in qualy (when the fuel isn't weighing the car down and letting it go lower) McLaren have been generally weaker than in the race
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marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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raymondu999 wrote:Yes, but look at their barn-door diffuser. That thing is just so big it starves at high ride heights, and that's a big reason why in qualy (when the fuel isn't weighing the car down and letting it go lower) McLaren have been generally weaker than in the race
I don´t get the reasoning why a big diffusser does starve of air at bigger ride heights...
I always thought it was the other way round...small ride heights -shallower difusser ramps needed to avoid separation?

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horse
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Joined: 23 Oct 2009, 17:53
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Re: Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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marcush. wrote:I always thought it was the other way round...small ride heights -shallower difusser ramps needed to avoid separation?
Yes, diffuser can only "choke" at very low ride heights.

At higher ride heights all diffusers become less effective, big or small.

I guess if your performance relies on a diffuser more than the other team, then the performance drop off for raising ride height on your big diffuser may be greater than the car with the little diffuser.

I can't imagine that the Red Bull has a little diffuser, however.
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marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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I suspect the long wheelbase indeed does hamper the exploitation of rake to gain downforce...as you will of course need more rideheight at the rear to hold the car at similar rake angles compared to a shorter car.

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horse
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Re: Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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marcush. wrote:I suspect the long wheelbase indeed does hamper the exploitation of rake to gain downforce...as you will of course need more rideheight at the rear to hold the car at similar rake angles compared to a shorter car.
It will be a balance between the amount of floor (I'm assuming a longer wheelbase car has a longer floor <- is it true???), and (induced) diffuser angle from raising the rear of the car. Both will give more down force, but I don't know which is better.
"Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words." - Chuang Tzu

AbbaleRacing77
AbbaleRacing77
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Joined: 23 Mar 2010, 23:05

Re: Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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raymondu999 wrote:Yes, but look at their barn-door diffuser. That thing is just so big it starves at high ride heights, and that's a big reason why in qualy (when the fuel isn't weighing the car down and letting it go lower) McLaren have been generally weaker than in the race
First of all the cars are so stiffly sprung that the ride heights don't change due to fuel consumption as much as you think they do, less than a centimeter max. The reason why you might see an f1 car high off the ground is mostly to account for the weight of down force at speed. Secondly the purpose of a diffuser is to create a low pressure as air flows out from behind the car. Which means that bigger is better... You cant starve a diffuser by making it too big because the whole point of the diffuser is to allow air to flow as fast as possible under the car by creating a huge exit point.

marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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of course the longer car will have more plane area hence more downforce.

a difusser bigger is better? I´m not so sure ...it depends surely a lot on shape of transitions if you are able to keep the flows attached to the difusser walls.

vinuneuro
vinuneuro
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 19:34

Re: Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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AbbaleRacing77 wrote:You cant starve a diffuser by making it too big because the whole point of the diffuser is to allow air to flow as fast as possible under the car by creating a huge exit point.
Flow velocity will decrease as the volume increases. Of course, the constraint at the other end is choking it by making it too small.

kalinka
kalinka
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Re: Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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Anyone noticed that they're using ret. ignition only during Q3 of qualyfying ? Maybe it's the reason of quite small margins to RBR's in qualy. Did they use it in race ? I'm not sure. At Spa, it was obvious that they're using it during the race too.

Also what do you think, why is that ret. ignition sound is so remarkable on McLaren, and almost unnoticeable on other cars ?

boydy19
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Re: Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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The mp4-25 has been the nearly car of 2010.

wrcsti
wrcsti
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Joined: 06 Apr 2009, 04:46

Re: Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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I didn't hear the ignition but it was clearly used as exhaust flames lasted the whole way through braking and not just on downshifts as usual. Same thing on rbr and Ferrari.

aral
aral
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Joined: 03 Apr 2010, 22:49

Re: Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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wrcsti wrote:I didn't hear the ignition but it was clearly used as exhaust flames lasted the whole way through braking and not just on downshifts as usual. Same thing on rbr and Ferrari.
Exhaust flames indicate unburnt fuel being passed through the exhaust. As this energy is being wasted, it must play avoc with the fuel consumption.

JMN
JMN
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Joined: 29 Aug 2010, 14:45

Re: Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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Indeed, but it also improves throttle response and feeds the diffuser. Both of these effects allows you to get back on the gas faster, which is very noticeable on tracks such as Singapore. Furthermore you have the the increased cornering speed as the rear is less likely to slide. It is however perfectly possible they turned it down for the race compared to FP2 due to fuel consumption considerations. While retarded ignition does increase fuel consumption, I think it's fair to say it doesn't exactly waste the energy - it uses it in a maner that is less efficient, but has a critical impact on the way the car behaves while coming on and off the throttle.

wrcsti
wrcsti
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Joined: 06 Apr 2009, 04:46

Re: Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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JMN wrote:Indeed, but it also improves throttle response and feeds the diffuser. Both of these effects allows you to get back on the gas faster, which is very noticeable on tracks such as Singapore. Furthermore you have the the increased cornering speed as the rear is less likely to slide. It is however perfectly possible they turned it down for the race compared to FP2 due to fuel consumption considerations. While retarded ignition does increase fuel consumption, I think it's fair to say it doesn't exactly waste the energy - it uses it in a maner that is less efficient, but has a critical impact on the way the car behaves while coming on and off the throttle.
This is what i hoped people would gather from my post in their heads without having to write so much.

mstar
mstar
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Joined: 26 May 2009, 13:32

Re: Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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what was suggested by the team was that tyre wear was a issue for the car, but we go t no indication if the RBs/Ferrari had that as well. I think the earlier commment that the MP4/25 was the nearly car of 2010, it just lacked the final push to take it ahead of all cars to be consistently fastest.