Vettel vs Ricciardo 2014

[Cam]

....but as the saying goes, a statistician once drowned crossing a stream, that was on average 6 inches deep.

I thought 73.6% of all statistics were made up?

[GitanesBlondes]

....but as the saying goes, a statistician once drowned crossing a stream, that was on average 6 inches deep.

I thought 73.6% of all statistics were made up?

Statistics can certainly be helpful in some regards, but they aren't the be all, end all that some want to believe they are.

[mnmracer]

Trying to judge competitiveness based purely on a qualifying gap is an exercise in stupidity. I know you think you can somehow divine answers solely from numbers, but as the saying goes, a statistician once drowned crossing a stream, that was on average 6 inches deep.

The qualifying gap is a simple illustration. Points scored shows the same result. Anything other than "because I say so" concludes the same thing.

Though now I am curious how you conclude a difference in competitiveness without using facts and numbers.

[bhall]

Everything is relative. The smaller gaps these days are the result of regulations so tight that it's virtually impossible to produce anything less than a reasonably capable car. That doesn't necessarily translate to competitiveness, though, because finding gains within such a stringent framework is much more difficult.

And I don't think points tallies have ever really been indicative of competitiveness. They only express outcomes irrespective of any other factors e.g., force majeure.

[mnmracer]

None of which addresses how one can than make the assertion that Irvine performed better with Schumacher out.

[FoxHound]

None of which addresses how one can than make the assertion that Irvine performed better with Schumacher out.

The very fact Schumacher was not driving improved Irvine's results.

[bhall]

Classic addition by subtraction.

And it's always helpful to have the optimum race strategy, a given for pretty much every team's lead driver.

[mnmracer]

Classic addition by subtraction.

Two problems with that:
1) statistics are evil, can't use that
2) adding and substracting shows that Irvine did not score more points when Schumacher was out

None of which addresses how one can than make the assertion that Irvine performed better with Schumacher out.

The very fact Schumacher was not driving improved Irvine's results.

Based on what -using not numbers, which I am not allowed to use, eventhough it disproves the theory- do you claim "the very fact Schumacher was not driving improved Irvine's results"?

[bhall]

"Addition by subtraction" is a figure of speech. It means Schumacher didn't take points away from Irvine, regardless of the total.

In that way, Irvine was able to get a better return from the strength of the car relative to others. That benefit usually fell to Schumacher.

[mnmracer]

In that way, Irvine was able to get a better return from the strength of the car relative to others. That benefit usually fell to Schumacher.

Based on what? The numbers say otherwise, so based on what do you keep making that claim?

[FoxHound]

2) adding and substracting shows that Irvine did not score more points when Schumacher was out.

Look at his average whilst racing with, compared to without.
I think you'll find your statement factually, and statistically ( )incorrect.

[WaikeCU]

None of which addresses how one can than make the assertion that Irvine performed better with Schumacher out.

The very fact Schumacher was not driving improved Irvine's results.

Yes, he might have improved, but he didn't become better than Schumacher.

I think it's more about resource allocation. The team is more biased to let Schumacher do his thing, but as soon you take Schumacher out of the equation then Irvine needs to step up and deliver. So by then, the team needs to focus on how to deliver a perfect car for Irvine, because it largely relies on him who is going to get Ferrari a possible WDC and WCC. I think the team have done that, but it's factor Irvine that needed to deliver and he kinda didn't. It's just like during a weekend when one driver gets all the new updates on his car and the other will just have to wait until it's diagnosed that the updates do work like intended.

[FoxHound]

Absolutely Waike.

[basti313]

Based on what -using not numbers, which I am not allowed to use, eventhough it disproves the theory- do you claim "the very fact Schumacher was not driving improved Irvine's results"?

You think too complicated. It is like if Mercedes would not be driving this year, it would improve RedBull's results.
Do not even try to think about that, it contains no useful information.

Had you taken Vettel out of the equation in 2011, and nothing else changed, Webber would also have been a contender for the championship. Context is ever-important.

Come on, you are the statistics guy...if you take out Vettel in 2011, Webber still would have been on P3 behind Button and Alonso with Button being far away.

Classic addition by subtraction.

And it's always helpful to have the optimum race strategy, a given for pretty much every team's lead driver.

When would a better race strategy have helped Irvine in 1999 or Webber in 2011? They were either too slow or already had the optimum strategy...I do not remember any not optimal "plan B" strategies like this year with Rosberg to beat or cover the team partner...

[bhall]

Based on what? The numbers say otherwise, so based on what do you keep making that claim?

Is it really difficult to understand that a driver cannot possibly beat you if he's not racing?

Remember: the idea here is that Irvine was a made a contender by Schumacher's absence, not that he performed better because of Schumacher's absence. There's a difference.