Renault race-fixing at Singapore 2008

[timbo]

I think Ari should weigh in and FOTA should rise its voice every time there is a new leak. I find it inexcusable for a professional sport to tolerate being run in this tawdry manner. And just when I was commending Max on a good job, all fingers are pointing to him (or a surrogate) as being the leaker.

Exactly. I think what Max said is hilarious

They were given to everybody on the basis that they were confidential

An awful lot of different people have had them for one reason or another

Was that like - "you are journalist? Look at this info but it is confidential [-X "

[SZ]

Does telemetry also say he was forced to crash? Cause this is the question.

A fool was allegedly asked to jump off a bridge and did, and is immediately given immunity from the consequences.

It's far from the question, it's just a well-timed revelation being used to severely discredit one individual at the alleged meeting. That this meeting took place and the deliberate crashing being floated by at least someone is about the second thing concrete in this saga. The first is that those making the statement and those co-ordinating proceedings found a common enemy...

The jackpot now will be getting Symonds to incriminate Flav directly or having some other way of getting Renault's senior staff to each each other. Failing that, the threat of a hysterically large penalty in return for Flav's head. Getting the mud to stick to Flav is going to be interesting. The lack of news on this specific topic, and the timing to the 21st... let's say there's time for a bombshell yet.

Spare a thought for the people at Renault who are very probably wondering whether they'll have jobs next year... it's a serious offence but let's put it in the context of the sport - a red team and a German driver fixed complete championships for years without penalties that had them so much as missing a single race...

So the real question is "why is FIA/Max going for Flav now?"

It's not S&MGate. It's easy enough to work out the timing, you have to think a little more as to the reasons...

[xpensive]

Ah you guys... I told you the leaks were Max and the whole thing was about targeting Flav days ago!

Now you need to ask yourselves... why.

That one I think is rather simple, MrM wants to break FOTA's back. Honda suckered by his old buddy Ross, BMW leaving when disgusted with the Concord, McLaren toothless without Ron Dennis and now Britore. See the pattern?

[gcdugas]

My real induction to F1 was watching NP Sr. win the WDC at Kyalami in 1983 on ESPN with John Bisignano. I loved the BMWs and Gordon Murray etc. Now I have heavily revised my opinion of NP Sr. I used to rate him very highly as the "silent 3-time champ" while I rated Keke as the guy who won the WDC in the least deserving way. Now I have reversed my opinion 180 degrees.

While NP Sr. was a great driver he is a failure of a father. Not because Jr. is slow but because he is a whiny little brat who went way farther in racing than he ever deserved. Keke or Mrs. Rosberg raised a modest, loyal, polite, well spoken son who also happens to be fast.

[Ciro Pabón]

My most sincere congratulations. I never thought I'd live to see the day: four solid pages of thread without any insults... that's a new record. Please, continue that way or else.

I would like to speculate about the consequences:

- Mr. Briatore could follow the already proven "Dennis way": a year or so of perfunctory functions before admiting defeat.

Of course, it could go the other way, given the simpathy I detect for Nelson Piquet (either of them) in this forum composed mainly of Sennamaniacs. You know, Briatore reminds me of Urko, the gorilla in the "Planet of the Apes" series: "he never stops going after you" (insert first four compasses of 5th Simphony)

Briatore stands in victory with FIA Board in their combat attires behind. Nelsinho in the background, inside the net. Mosley, lower right, with his "I never saw that coming" look.


- Renault has to go back to build small cars that nobody buys.

Withmarsh in denial, cries besides the new Renault Prius model


- Max Mosley takes advantage of the current junction of affairs to insert 72 new teams into the grid, including Kenworth and Wartsila. He laughs uncontrollably at press conferences and creates the hereditary title of King of FIA Board for him and Prince of Montecarlo for his son Patrick. FIA motto changes to "Retirement would be a great relief... but we like to suffer".

Mosley says his retirement would be a relief (we assume he's talking about the relief Jackie Stewart will feel). He compares his predicaments of those of his wife. The moron. "My wife says it's just like housework. It's never done. There is always something..."... specially if you're the wife of a BDSM junkie.


- Tomba closes the board as soon as Renault exits F1. Principessa and myself restrain him in his attempt to blow Spa to pieces, while he mumbles: "they will take Eau Rouge from my dead hands!".

- Alonso is given immunity and, besides entangling Piquet, Senna's second cousin and Briatore last lover, he confesses where Jimmy Hoffa is interred, who killed Kennedy and gives to the astounded investigators the location of the nearest inhabited planet. He wins the 2009 "Oviedo Award for Most Informed Driver in the Grid" and moves to Toyota. Montezzemolo informs the public that Ferrari will hire him as soon as Fisichella retires. Fisichella continues to drive until he's 65 and then is replaced by an ageing "Wonder Boy" Sutil.

[SZ]

That one I think is rather simple, MrM wants to break FOTA's back.

10 points

The power balance in FOTA is Flav. Sure, it's the occasional voting bloc for any love-in between Ferrari and McLaren, but Flav represents the interests of practically everyone else.

Remember all that talk of a breakaway championship to be chaired by Flav? Someone - who has nothing to lose in retiring soon - hasn't forgotten. Neither's MrE. There's a lot of money riding on F1 and any serious threat to that revenue stream - let alone to the FIA losing their pinnacle category - is taken very seriously. With new teams coming in to strengthen the FOTA cause if needs be - they'll be needing more money than they thought soon enough - it's time to kill any breakaway championship threat before it starts up again. Of all those that'd want it, only Flav has the presence, skills and contacts outside the sport to seriously fund, organise and run it. Take Flav out and you need to find another seriously wily, big-picture-aware, commercially-minded individual - presently one doesn't exist. Mateschitz aside they're almost all engineers and all want no more than the glory of their own teams.

Remember the maFIA saying... you do not leave the family.

How successful in targeting Briatore these people will be remains to be seen. He's a wily, smart, resourceful individual. This is the same Flav sentenced to a few years in jail in his home country that simply fled and later got out of it. The same guy that got sacked by Renault in 97 and started a business making their engines in 98, then came back to run the same show a few years later. The same guy derided for replacing Button with some unknown Alonso he'd been mentoring at Minardi. He's a wily, intelligent individual and there's no guarantee these efforts to get rid of him will be successful. Let alone that Renault a while ago said it'd no go racing without Flav, but Flav has maintained an involvement in F1 without Renault just fine.

Look at it that way and the efforts to discredit - the main evidence so far doesn't incriminate Flav - are looking a bit desperate. There are willing participants in the Piquets to stir up a good amount of mud but no guarantee it'll stick yet.

Stay tuned...

Ciro... very amusing. Got a laugh out of that...

While NP Sr. was a great driver he is a failure of a father. Not because Jr. is slow but because he is a whiny little brat who went way farther in racing than he ever deserved.

Jnr isn't slow - he certainly wasn't before F1 against some competitive drivers today - and by all accounts he didn't have it easy with his team.

But unless he or his people have cut a backroom deal for a drive next season, it'll be very hard to get another one after this outburst. Unless

[timbo]

That one I think is rather simple, MrM wants to break FOTA's back.

10 points

I knew the unswer too

Although the key think is not that he is center of balance in FOTA, but that he is the chairman of Commercial Development WG in FOTA. If you look at other team representatives in that group http://www.teamsassociation.org/working-groups
noone has the weight of Flavio.

[gcdugas]

That one I think is rather simple, MrM wants to break FOTA's back.

10 points

The power balance in FOTA is Flav. Sure, it's the occasional voting bloc for any love-in between Ferrari and McLaren, but Flav represents the interests of practically everyone else.

Remember all that talk of a breakaway championship to be chaired by Flav? Someone - who has nothing to lose in retiring soon - hasn't forgotten. Neither's MrE. There's a lot of money riding on F1 and any serious threat to that revenue stream - let alone to the FIA losing their pinnacle category - is taken very seriously.......

I don't see that. I thought John Howett was more of an agitator than Flav. Flav may have had a part but so did Luca and the rest. And Flav will roll over with the FIA agenda easier than the rest. Remember how he was OK with spec engines, the initial freeze etc. And then there is the matter of Force India and Williams being readmitted to FOTA along with USF1's stated desire. This may be a plot to get old Flav but I don't think it is for reasons related to FOTA.

[Pup]

MrM wants to break FOTA's back. Honda suckered by his old buddy Ross, BMW leaving when disgusted with the Concord, McLaren toothless without Ron Dennis and now Britore. See the pattern?

I don't think Max cares a hoot about FOTA, nor do I think he ever has. I think this is personal, and an extension of his jealousy about the amount of money being made by everyone in F1 besides himself. He sold off his team to join Bernie at the FIA; but while Max ended up with the power, everyone else ended up with the cash - in the hundreds of millions. I think Max has worked for years to drive a wedge between the manufacturers, who are supplying all the money, and his old cohorts. (And the fines don't hurt, either.)

But I think this deal with Flavio is just a bonus that fell in his lap. Max will follow it through, and he'll be sure to get it pinned on Flavio if he can - but I think his focus right now is on getting himself back into the game with a team of his own. Max's only beef with FOTA has been with their opposition to getting the entry point for a new team down to something he can afford.

[SZ]

I don't see that. I thought John Howett was more of an agitator than Flav.

Howett Howett's a nothing in F1. He administers an extension of a budget set in Japan, period.

If you want to talk about ''rolling over'', try Luca. A better work might we ''realignment''. Luca is peeved as long as Ferrari's vision of F1 and the FIA's are not compatible... then he's OK again.

Remember how he was OK with spec engines, the initial freeze etc. And then there is the matter of Force India and Williams being readmitted to FOTA along with USF1's stated desire. This may be a plot to get old Flav but I don't think it is for reasons related to FOTA.

Ha ha, you've missed that one mate!

What did Flav really want - spec engines or an unprecedented upgrade to Renault's engines - did you miss that all engines were sealed at the end of last season except for his teams'? Getting every team to agree to that - masterstroke - they usually don't agree to anything that makes any one team more competitive! Threatening the F1 fraternity with a major manufacturer and engine supplier going for the spec engine, all part of a master plan - he got what he wanted. He understands politics, no question, and F1 is highly political.

And with those kind of smarts, if he wants a breakaway championship he's got a better chance of getting that too than anyone else. FOTA's the vehicle to do it, particularly when you have more teams readmitted/on board.

I don't think Max cares a hoot about FOTA, nor do I think he ever has. I think this is personal, and an extension of his jealousy about the amount of money being made by everyone in F1 besides himself.

Crap. Unlike Bernie and the rest, Max came into F1 with money... old money. He didn't come into F1, nor will he leave it, crying poor.

[xpensive]

For me it's enough to consider the peanut-teams which MrM is bringing in as replacements for the grandees, Manor, Campos, Lotus and Bogus, to get a crystal-clear picture of what he wants in F1.

[Ciro Pabón]

I wonder how could Mr. Mosley break FOTA's back. Sometimes they seem spineless to me, but I might be wrong.

[Pup]

I don't think Max cares a hoot about FOTA, nor do I think he ever has. I think this is personal, and an extension of his jealousy about the amount of money being made by everyone in F1 besides himself.

Crap. Unlike Bernie and the rest, Max came into F1 with money... old money. He didn't come into F1, nor will he leave it, crying poor.

I never said he was poor. But he's far from the net worth of everyone else in the sport, most of whom did come into it poor.

Keep in mind that Max's attempts at lowering the value of F1 were every bit the threat to CVC as the breakaway series.

[Slife]

I just read the transcrpit of an interview with Symonds and the FIA.

I don't know law, but I guess not answering the questions would be the best thing for Symonds' lawyers.

And since I don't know much law, would officials in Singapore do anything for Renault's actions (forcing someone to hurt themselves) ?

[adam2007]

how have they got the data from last year? how long do they have to keep data for after a race then?