Mercedes GP 2011

[marcush.]

the fact alone that MGP has more access to MHPEs R&D will give them a distinctive advantage in terms of how to use the engine and exploit it to the max..

And who said a "A" customer gets all thats possible with the engine he receives? Isn´t it plausble that MHPE would work to a higher safety margin with engines for third parties where they have less control and possibility to monitor and handle on what is happening ? So Mcl or FI could well decide to make available more aggressive maps for longer time -putting engines at risk ....? so why not block access to certain areas of maps to ensure engines are meeting life expectance 100%? In your own team you can easily override this when men in power are prepared to take responsibility..

[Ferraripilot]

So where is the evidence other than ambitious and mischievous speculation?

+1

If there were a pointed difference in engine allotments, we would see reliability differences as well, which of course we have not seen.

There's not a lot to an engine tolerance-wise which is going to make much of a difference. The main points of parasitic drag in an engine are the piston rings, crank and rod main journals, and gears which drive the camshafts and the forces they are subjected to. A tolerance not within absolutely correct range in any one of those areas would show an obvious difference in reliability. The crank journal and rod saddles must be within about .0002" from on another or there will heat problems and that's about the only area I can think of which might be allowed to be slightly different from one another without blatant issues taking place, and even then such a tolerance difference is in no way worth 6bhp let alone 20bhp.

[marcush.]

this is really not evidence.
We have not seen any "official" engine issues with any of the mercedes powered cars ...maybe the one exception Schumachers dnf in Monaco?..
So no ways we can judge on just how close Mercedes is cutting it in the works team compared to the customers as long as they just get it right.If you got your best people looking after the works team engines you sure can run closer to the edge without dropping the ball.

[bizadfar]

the fact alone that MGP has more access to MHPEs R&D will give them a distinctive advantage in terms of how to use the engine and exploit it to the max..

And who said a "A" customer gets all thats possible with the engine he receives? Isn´t it plausble that MHPE would work to a higher safety margin with engines for third parties where they have less control and possibility to monitor and handle on what is happening ? So Mcl or FI could well decide to make available more aggressive maps for longer time -putting engines at risk ....? so why not block access to certain areas of maps to ensure engines are meeting life expectance 100%? In your own team you can easily override this when men in power are prepared to take responsibility..

Where are the maps stored?

[munudeges]

the fact alone that MGP has more access to MHPEs R&D will give them a distinctive advantage in terms of how to use the engine and exploit it to the max..

Where are the maps stored?

Ultimately they are down to MHPE. Logic tells you everything here.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

So what does logic tell you about mercedes deliberately sabotaging their own engines?

[munudeges]

Pardon? You'll have to explain that one. They're certainly not sabotaging their own engines.

[bizadfar]

the fact alone that MGP has more access to MHPEs R&D will give them a distinctive advantage in terms of how to use the engine and exploit it to the max..

Where are the maps stored?

Ultimately they are down to MHPE. Logic tells you everything here.

lol.
I'll answer my own question.

It's a MES ECU.

Mclaren Electronic Systems.

I'm sure they know they're own ECU inside out and will be able to identify any 'suspect' detuning via software.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

What, can i politely ask, is your point seg?

You are suggesting mercedes are providing inferior equipment to the other 2 teams?
Because mercedes still get credit when McLaren win, albeit nowhere near as much as if they had done so themselves.
But as they aren't in such a position, why on earth would mercedes provide unequal equipment?

Is it because they want Red Bull Renault and Ferrari to clean up instead of their long time partner McLaren? That makes no sense at all hence why I asked.

Also, it's interesting to note that McLaren are working very closely with mercedes hpe to achieve their own optimum exhaust maps. What's good for McLaren or mercedes does not necessarily mean it will be good for the other. If there was a discreprancy, McLaren would be very aware of it IMO

+1 bizadfar

[munudeges]

1. It's a standardised ECU built by a McLaren subsidiary. That's it.

2. Everyone knows about it.

3. What's the ECU got to do with MHPE?

4. What are McLaren going to do if they get engines from MHPE if they suspect they are not the best of the batch?

5. Mercedes is the factory team. What no one has answered is why MHPE are not going to work closely with them and give them every advantage?

It's a pretty obvious and blunt point.

[bizadfar]

sigh, go read what I quoted.

As a lot of you wannabe techs and commentators on the sport.. all you effectively do is hypothesize, some of them (actually majority of them) perhaps ridiculous and poorly thought out.
He talked about encrypting blocks in the map. I attacked that.

Simple.

[marcush.]

it´s not sabotage it´s safety margins I´m talking about.
Mclaren cannot dictate safety margins to Mercedes methinks.

[Ferraripilot]

It needs a rethink. It needs a spacer between engine and gearbox with conventional radiators, and less stuby sidepods to match.

+1 I completely agree there. Give them time. W02 is not the car to make such changes to, but rather W03 is.


@Marcush
If a team doesn't have reliability, they don't have anything. Reliability comes first.

[Ferraripilot]

MB have announced they are bringing in 100 people to their staff so to be staffed as the other big teams are! Big news

[marcush.]

You get me wrong here completely.
I don´t say go for speed only,far from it.In my whole racing career ,when in charge I had exactly 1 technical dnf .Not tzhat you find things after the race inspection ,sure you do ,but of course you need reliability.

The Mercedes GrandPrix case is not that of a fragile car .It´s more than a good second slow.The question is clearly :Can Mercedes quantify how much laptime deficit they owe to the development issues they have ? If there is 2 tenths to be found with solving it.its still not enough.
so why bother and work in an area that will not help your results? Even in a 400headcount environment you will not have recources enough to shoot at all targets synchronised.So9 you need to concentrate on those who will bring the project forward.

A pole position ,a podium or a win will do that