Fernando Alonso has confirmed that Ferrari's pace in qualifying was not just luck. The Spaniard dominated everybody in two blistering stints in the second half of the race. Sebastian Vettel ended second, just ahead of Mark Webber.
Mandrake wrote:
I'm still waiting for your explanation why the red bull was faster....didn't see that in the race. Also look at how vettel later overtook massa....
Ferrari clearly the fastest car today which makes vettel's enormous lead in the wet even more astounding. Would have been interesting to see how he would have defended from alonso.
Looking forward to the German gp, let's see how the new rules really mixed up the field.
You want to know why the Red Bull was faster? That's a rather good question and one you'd be paid alot to give out
Vettel was faster, over the lap than Lewis. Evidenced by him catching up to Lewis and even attempting the pass. I recall in the past the faster car being stuck behind a slower car for extended periods and being unable to pass because the aero didn't allow the car to keep its pace in the corners. This is still somewhat there, faster car gets within the second and struggles to pass.
The Red Bull seems set up for Qualifying more than the race, its top speed is optimal for that and as a result finds it hard to pass under DRS in the race where a greater top speed is available (DRS and slipstream)
They took the smart option and pitted him where he was able to keep cool.
Anthony Davidson said it in the commentary. Vettel is best when he's in front. He can command the race extremely and can deal with back-markers easily (as you'd expect) but he doesn't seem able to overtake the front-runners as well as you'd imagine a World Champion to. I guess this is his Achilles Heel
"It could be done manually. It would take quite a while, but it could be done. There is however a much more efficient and accurate way of getting the data. Men with lasers." Wing Commander Andy Green
Just_a_fan wrote:
Yeah. How many laps trying to overtake a car that was in fuel saving mode? Whilst driving the best car in the field? Yeah, really suckered.
Vettel didnt need to overtake Hamilton so the team brought him in. Simple as that.
fixed it for you
Thanks but it didn't need fixing. Vettel was losing over a second per lap to Alonso whilst behind Hamilton. If he wanted to win the race then he needed to pass Hamilton. He tried and he couldn't.
Vettel fans need to remember that Vettel wasn't racing Hamilton at this stage, he was racing Alonso. His failure to pass Hamilton meant that Alonso got away.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
flynfrog wrote:
didnt need to win the race why try as hamilton move and ball up the car when you have the championship to worry about.
So why did he spend several laps trying to overtake Hamilton? He almost drove in to the back of Hamilton out of Woodcote at one stage he was trying that hard.
Odd for a guy who wasn't trying because he didn't need to...
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
He tried and failed. The reason he was pulled in is because Horner knew he had no overtaking skills compared to Lewis and would burn his tires off trying to pass him. Flynfrog is right, he didn't want to ball up a perfectly good racecar with a move on Lewis like the one he pulled on Button at Spa. No use trashing a racecar because he's a crappy overtaker.
Last edited by Giblet on 12 Jul 2011, 17:03, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:please refrain from swearing.
Hamilton: "The support I had when I crossed the line was as if I'd won the race".
Vettel: "... if you're not at your optimum, then there's always someone there to beat you. Ferrari was very quick all weekend and they deserved the victory today."
Button: "The guy on the front-right lost the wheelnut and turned to take another; as he turned, I think his hand moved and the guy on the front jack felt that that was the trigger to lower the car".
Felipe: "First of all, I want to congratulate Fernando... my pace wasn't amazing today, but that could have had something to do with the fact my floor was damaged, after I hit something at Turn 6".
Luca Cordero: "This is Ferrari, a team that never stops fighting, never throws in the towel, at the top level for sixty years".
Schumacher: "Having used DRS for the first time in the race, I was arriving at the corner with over-run. Underestimating the effect, my braking was not good and this is how the collision happened. It was right to get a penalty...I would like to understand better as I felt it was too hard".
Heidfeld: "We saw on Saturday that this would be a tough weekend but as usual I said 'never give up.'"
Petrov: "The DRS section was not helpful at all; they should change its position on the track... Even on the back straight, there was not enough KERS to overtake so it would be better to put DRS there".
di Resta: "... I got a call to come into the pits again, but when I got there the team were expecting Adrian... the boys had to run back in the garage and fetch my tyres. That cost us about 25 seconds...".
Pérez: "After the accident it took me time to get back into the rhythm of the season, and find the momentum I had before it. In two weeks' time I shall be even stronger".
Kobayashi: "I think there is not a lot for me to say about the accident with Michael (Schumacher). We were not side by side, and he obviously hit the rear of my car. From then on I had to drive with a damaged car".
Alguersuari: "I was definitely faster than Heidfeld and Schumacher, around most of the lap, as was the case in Valencia"
Buemi: "... from the cockpit, I was on the dry line, he tried to come up the inside of me where the track surface was still very wet. So he could not brake as hard as if he had been on the dry and I felt an impact. He had touched my left rear tyre which shredded it. But that's racing, so it's best to forget it..."
Liuzzi: "... we competed until the last lap..."
Ricciardo: "It was nice to get the laps... Understanding the tyres, the pit stops and the strategy, it's really very complex and something I've never really done before... I was quite a bit off the other competitors... I also need to try and manage the blue flags a bit better, it's not easy".
Henry: "Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead". Wanda: "I can't stand people, I hate them". Henry: "Oh yeah?" Wanda: "Do you hate them?" Henry: "No, but I seem to feel better when they're not around".
-- Charles Bukowski, Barfly, 1987 --
Ciro: "Most posters here apparently have never crashed. So, they've never raced".
Last edited by Giblet on 12 Jul 2011, 16:54, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:Just fixed a couple names
Diesel wrote:
He did if he wanted to win the race. He was fastest at that stage of the grand prix, and needed to clear Hamilton to start reducing Alonso's lead. He couldn't do it, so really Hamilton did Alonso a big favour.
didnt need to win the race why try as hamilton move and ball up the car when you have the championship to worry about.
Very true, and it is certainly fair to assume Vettel didn't want to take any risks, he was the one with the most too lose, Hamilton had nothing to lose. I have not heard him say anything that comfirms this mentality though.
Ray wrote:He tried and failed. The reason he was pulled in is because Horner knew he had no overtaking skills compared to Lewis and would burn his tires off trying to pass him. Flynfrog is right, he didn't want to ball up a perfectly good racecar with a move on Lewis like the one he pulled on Button at Spa. No use trashing a racecar because he's a shitty overtaker.
most billiard games are lost on a scratch off the 8 ball. I tend to play just good enough to set some one up to scratch off the 8. Makes them think they were close and they will be higher next time.
Ray wrote:He tried and failed. The reason he was pulled in is because Horner knew he had no overtaking skills compared to Lewis and would burn his tires off trying to pass him. Flynfrog is right, he didn't want to ball up a perfectly good racecar with a move on Lewis like the one he pulled on Button at Spa. No use trashing a racecar because he's a shitty overtaker.
most billiard games are lost on a scratch off the 8 ball. I tend to play just good enough to set some one up to scratch off the 8. Makes them think they were close and they will be higher next time.
I don't disagree it was sound strategy to go ahead and pull Seb in for a pit stop instead of fighting to gain a single place and then lose it soon after. He, however, is a pretty shitty overtaker when pressure is on. So the best strategy for him was to pull him in rather than him burn his tires off trying to pass probably the finest overtaker in the business, or have Seb do one of his usual --- passing attempts and take himself and Lewis out. There is no strategy with Vettel other than to get out front via pole and storm off, he's not capable of coming from way down and win. At least not consistently. The only people that can are his compatriots in the other two top teams and Schuey. He is not in their class. Not even close.
Look at the description of the video to download the full BBC forum of the race.
From what he is saying if Vettel was bugged just as much as he was, he would have been past is a valid theory. Webber may have been distracted by the constant messages.
Turning off the radio to ignore the team may have been the last switch he flicked in a redbull car. So it was wise to just leave it on but do otherwise.
Traction wrote:That pit stop by Vettel was genius......pushed right up to the point of passing and then pitted....worked like a charm...left Hamilton high and dry...and secured a jump in positioning...great thinking on Vettels part...lack of understanding by Hamilton...I reckon SV suckered him...
Yeah. How many laps trying to overtake a car that was in fuel saving mode? Whilst driving the best car in the field? Yeah, really suckered.
Vettel couldn't overtake Hamilton so the team brought him in. Simple as that.
Um...they came out of the pits in l 28,around about lap 34he wa close enough, it was a close battle and Vettel made one or two valid attempts and never got past him...that's a given. Why chase LH just to get past him and then pit straight away and anyway RB probably deemed it to risky for the two to battle it out based on LH's history. Made better racing strategy sense and like I said it got SV into second as opposed to LH 's lowly 4th...and that's the bottom line....SV second....LH 4th......
Generally I don't care about what people say. I have to be clear with myself. When everything goes well, people celebrate you, when you make mistakes people criticize you.
Sebastian Vettel
Ray wrote:He tried and failed. The reason he was pulled in is because Horner knew he had no overtaking skills compared to Lewis and would burn his tires off trying to pass him. Flynfrog is right, he didn't want to ball up a perfectly good racecar with a move on Lewis like the one he pulled on Button at Spa. No use trashing a racecar because he's a crappy overtaker.
RB probably pulled him in because they know LH becomes a worse driver when getting overtaken and would probably have tried taking SV out....
Generally I don't care about what people say. I have to be clear with myself. When everything goes well, people celebrate you, when you make mistakes people criticize you.
Sebastian Vettel
Traction wrote:
RB probably pulled him in because they know LH becomes a shitty driver when getting overtaken and would probably have tried taking SV out....
Yeah, despite all the wheel to wheel fighting he and Jenson have done in their short time as teammates......
Traction wrote:
RB probably pulled him in because they know LH becomes a shitty driver when getting overtaken and would probably have tried taking SV out....
Yeah, despite all the wheel to wheel fighting he and Jenson have done in their short time as teammates......
yeah...ask Massa....
Generally I don't care about what people say. I have to be clear with myself. When everything goes well, people celebrate you, when you make mistakes people criticize you.
Sebastian Vettel
Diesel wrote:
He did if he wanted to win the race. He was fastest at that stage of the grand prix, and needed to clear Hamilton to start reducing Alonso's lead. He couldn't do it, so really Hamilton did Alonso a big favour.
didnt need to win the race why try as hamilton move and ball up the car when you have the championship to worry about.
Very true, and it is certainly fair to assume Vettel didn't want to take any risks, he was the one with the most too lose, Hamilton had nothing to lose. I have not heard him say anything that comfirms this mentality though.
I thought Vettel was having KERS problem towards the end of the race?
No use trashing a racecar because he's a crappy overtaker.
