2013 Spanish Grand Prix - Barcelona

[radosav]

We told the same about Button a few years ago. He got nowhere with his 3 stop strategy.

Some concern about tyre management is fine. Pitstops are there for a reason. However, more pitstops should also mean drivers can push their cars without worrying about the tyres. We didn't had that at Barcelona; teams were coasting trying to make the best out of the situation.

The tyres need to change. That is unfair towards Lotus and Ferrari, who did good. However, with 9 other teams struggling in such a way, you can no longer make a case of it that they got it wrong. Those 2 teams will probably keep their advantage if pirelli makes more endurable tyres, just with 1 stop less.

Paul Hembrey said that nine teams were against any tyre change!
So your argument isn't valid ! Only Red Bull is pushing for changes!

[turbof1]

Where did I say how many teams where in favor or against? I commented on the number of teams struggling, not on how many were ok with it. So still valid.

[radosav]

Where did I say how many teams where in favor or against? I commented on the number of teams struggling, not on how many were ok with it. So still valid.

You said 9 teams are struggling ,and in the same time Hembrey said that 9 teams don't want any tyre change.
How are they struggling if the only team that complains is Red Bull?

[turbof1]

Teams generally dont want changes except if it helps them. They are struggling, but they see the competition doing the same. New tyres bring new challenges. They possibly have to adapt their cars at the expense of resources. Their preferred choice is to struggle then.

See the difference? Of course Red Bull is amonh the few who clearly want better tyres. All the rest see the current tyres as a means to constrain red bull.

Not withstanding red bull's claim is pure out of self interest (they dont give the very crap about actual racing), the current situation is not what you as fan/viewer want to see. You want drivers fight eachother, not struggle with those tyres!

[aral]

...... Only Red Bull is pushing for changes!

Sorry, but both RBR and Pirelli have confirmed that RBR made NO representations to Pirelli about tyre changes. Merc is the main leader of requests for changes,and , by golly, they need them.

But Hemebry has said that if they produced a long lasting tyre, RBR would be running away with the championship, and that FIA/FOM don't want that. It is all political!

[Mandrake]

2. I see the insanity about tyres and golden era continues. Yes, only lack of Bridgestones and refuelling is standing in the way of brilliant racing in F1. FFS it was exactly the opposite. It's really like some alternative reality where memories were zeroed Men in Black style. Virtually nothing in this thread about actual current sport and Barcelona race, only uninformed back-patting of self proclaimed "veterans". The only reason for it - MY FAVOURITE DRIVER HAD A SHITTY RACE, HE WAS WINNING ON BRIDGESTONES SO IF THEY BRING THEM BACK EVERYTHING WILL BE WELL. Oh dear, what a waste of time to read it. Soon enough 2009 or 2011 will be some F1 classic season. Speaking of 2009, remember SPA? Very RANDOM results thanks to TEMPERATURES AND TYRES, faster FI stuck behind gizmo KERS defending Ferrari, fastest RB qualifying in 9th or sth. Oh the good old Bridgestone days. 2006 or Schumacher era great? What are you guys drinking/taking?

By chance I watched the 1998 Argentinian Race just recently. It was the first race? after GoodYear brought their wider front tires to stop McLaren from running away with the Michelins.

Today's F1 is by no means anywhere comparable to what we had in the past. MSC was powersliding out of the corners, leaving black marks on the tarmac. The cars looked a lot more nervous and way faster than today. The way every driver pushed the car into corners was just impressive. Yesterday was a snorefest with every input to the car being careful and soft.

(Ohh and: MSC passed DC in a hairpin when DC braked a bit too late. MSC took the inside, surprised DC who then drove into MSC and spun. There was not even an investigation, Murray and Martin both said everything was fine, just pure racing and DC wasn't aware......it's not just dreaming and seeing things through rose coloured glasses, it was really that good in the past!)

[Cocles]

...... Only Red Bull is pushing for changes!

Sorry, but both RBR and Pirelli have confirmed that RBR made NO representations to Pirelli about tyre changes. Merc is the main leader of requests for changes,and , by golly, they need them.

You're joking right? Hembrey flat out said in one of his videos that Merc undeservedly got pulled into this, and RBR was the only team who were requesting Pirelli to change the tires.

[WhiteBlue]

Not a great race, in fact quite boring with the usual tyre management contest. Congrats to Alonso and Ferrari who got it right and to Kimi for being patient enough. I would love to see some racing for a change. In Monaco we will have at least a decent fight for the pole if the race becomes a procession. But with the tyres being what they are that is not a serious prospect any more. Anyway, they will try much harder I'm sure.

[Hangaku]

So we are seeing tires destroy themselves from de-lamination, or become unusable within 15 laps (and those 15 laps are driven at 80%), and yet people are still claiming that 9 teams are happy with the situation? Please.

More than anything else, the de-lamination is the biggest issue here, because as soon as you lose confidence in the tires you are no longer a racing driver, you are a passenger on the Pirelli boat. Nonsense. That's not racing at all.

[oT v1]

Starting a petition to the FIA to allow Mercedes their own tiny pit lane on the other side of the main straight at each race with no speed limit and unlimited tyre allocation!!

WHO'S WITH ME?????

(not srs, they'll probably go ahead and win Monaco now)

[fiohaa]

I hated Schumacher, but I have to agree with this guy overall
We need more driving and less coasting.
There needs to be 3 FREE tire choices, one that lasts about 60% of the race one that lasts 40% and one that lasts 20%. They need to be actually quicker by a meaningful percentage than the others. You can't have harder tires that perform almost the same or better than softer ones, it's weird! And no rules about which tire you're forced to use.
Also bringing back refueling would help with drivers always racing and not coasting on fuel-save mode (though it's usually always tire-save mode nowadays).

i think what annoys me most when people bring out the 'schumacher years' argument, is they completely forget how much money influences the teams performance.

one of the major reasons why you're only Ever going to see 3 or 4 teams in the history of F1 winning all the time is because of MONEY.
Whatever you do with the rules, however much you try and manipulate the racing with stupid tyres and non overtake DRS, you've still ended up with a situation where Vettel has won it 3 years in a row lol. Hmmm.....yes i think he is a good racer following in schumi's tracks (i thought his race craft in Spain at the start was terrific), but REdbull has quite probably the biggest budget, and quite clearly ignored the resource restriction agreement.

These are the facts!

What you should have is a seperate championship for 'Points / £' factor - and every month, every team should disclose to the public their monthly accounts. Then we could see how much each team is spending, and compare that to the amount of points.
The higher the factor, the better you are.
Take out all the artificial crap, let the teams get on with it, and make the Points/£ the most important championship ever.

I dont care who wins, i dont care about supporting drivers or teams, i want to see who has the best Points/£.
You'll now have teams trying to spend as little as possible to get the most points.

Infact - they should extend this concept to ALL motorsport, and make motorsport finally something that is accessible to the 99%. REVOLUTION.

[Unc1e_M0nty]

And now for something completely different.

TV obviously doesn't show everything that happens, but as far as I can tell, no one left the track today. The three retirements happened on track and proceeded directly into the pit. No driver appeared to have had an "off".

Allow me to drag you back into the dirt with everyone: Nobody left the track today because nobody was racing.

haha, so true, and yet sad.

I lost count of the times a diver more or less just waved another car through, the art of defending has been lost, it's just not worth the extra trye wear these days.

[Unc1e_M0nty]

[quote="Ganxxta"]That Marussia following Vettel for a few laps was hilarious

"Seb don't defend your position"...
"I can't go any slower" - Hamilton
quote]

I thought Hamy's other quote was better

"I've just been overtaken by a Williams"

Delivered with resignation and dry wit, just priceless !

[munudeges]

I agree too. We need better tires and refueling back.

nice argument...

What's there to argue when you've got people with the memory of goldfishes?

Refuelling was dispensed with simply because races (usually with Michael Schumacher) went like this:

1. Get on pole.
2. Wait for cars behind to react and short fill to make sure you maintain track position.
3. Win.

Refuelling provided no variation whatsoever, no overtaking and not even any overtaking in the pits.......and people want back something they can't even remember?

[wesley123]

At least it wasnt all artificial and the drivers could and would actually put in some pace, instead of trying to drive as slow as possible because else the tires cant hold for 2 laps.

Maybe they should force drivers to stand still for 2 minutes each race, that sure will get some overtaking done, since that is the only thing that makes a race!

Thank god I'm not watching it anymore...