2013 Italian GP - Monza

[mx_tifoso]

Reception? They shook hands as is the normal minimum when they meet up in the room but that's it as was shown on camera. It wasn't very teammate like at all.

And iirc as well, Alonso and Webber were apart in the champagne spraying. I felt like they distanced themselves from Vettel when possible.

[CHT]

Did Vettel really not go to Webber's reception?

If so that'll be a nightmare team situation for RB.

I thought the scene at the holding area before the podium was weird. Webber totally ignoring Newey and Seb and just go straight into talking with Alonso.

Anyway, its pretty obvious that relationship between the 2 have already reach a point of no return so it might be better to be real about it instead of pretending to be nice.

[Juzh]

@mx_tifoso
Your nickname says it all, doesn't it?
Alonso is going on well with webbo simply because he knows he's not in his league and he's gonna let him by without much resistance, as seen throughout recent years.

[SectorOne]

Damn... i really think Hamilton could have cut back on the pace once he was ahead of Rosberg and just bring it home, potentially lose 1-2-3 spots but still finish higher then this.

I think you're mad if you think you can do 40ish laps on a single set of medium tyres.

Well i think you are mad for not trying. He´s F*cked anyways, might as well try it.
He had way more left in the tires then what Mercedes thought, telling him to pit while he banks in the fastest lap of the race.
I think he could have easily cut down on the pace and just lose a position if he had to.

When he caught Rosberg and Hulkenberg both of them had fresher tires and yet he flew past them.
The hard compound was absolutely terrible around here. Crap is a better word.

I really think you guys are reading too much into this. You're talking about two drivers driving on medium tyres that have to last 10-15 laps, up against people driving on hards, that have already done 15-20 laps, and need to do another 10-15. The hards are half a second slower to start with, they lose a tenth of pace every lap, it's not a surprise then that HAM and RAI were 1.5 seconds a lap faster than them, especially given that they could push 100%, because they didn't have to do a full (20-25 lap) stint on the mediums they were on.

I think you are reading too little into this clearly.
I said it provided great entertainment. It was fantastic to see regardless of tire life.
It made the race great to watch. Maybe not for you but definitely for the majority in which i´m sure everyone understood they had better tires.

[beelsebob]

Damn... i really think Hamilton could have cut back on the pace once he was ahead of Rosberg and just bring it home, potentially lose 1-2-3 spots but still finish higher then this.

I think you're mad if you think you can do 40ish laps on a single set of medium tyres.

Well i think you are mad for not trying. He´s F*cked anyways, might as well try it.

No, they already did the testing, and know the limits of the Medium tyre. Knowing that you're going to get 7th at best with one strategy is not valid reason for choosing to go for a strategy that you know will send the tyres off the cliff, and leave you out of the points.

He had way more left in the tires then what Mercedes thought, telling him to pit while he banks in the fastest lap of the race.

Banking the fastest lap does not mean that he had lots of tyres left – remember, these tyres perform very well until a set limit, and then destroy themselves within the space of half a lap.

I think he could have easily cut down on the pace and just lose a position if he had to.

But you don't have a huge amount of technical data. None of the teams thought that the tyres could do 30 laps, let alone 40.

I really think you guys are reading too much into this. You're talking about two drivers driving on medium tyres that have to last 10-15 laps, up against people driving on hards, that have already done 15-20 laps, and need to do another 10-15. The hards are half a second slower to start with, they lose a tenth of pace every lap, it's not a surprise then that HAM and RAI were 1.5 seconds a lap faster than them, especially given that they could push 100%, because they didn't have to do a full (20-25 lap) stint on the mediums they were on.

I think you are reading too little into this clearly.
I said it provided great entertainment. It was fantastic to see regardless of tire life.
It made the race great to watch. Maybe not for you but definitely for the majority in which i´m sure everyone understood they had better tires.

Agreed, it sure was a fun end to the race. But I don't think Kimi or Lewis did anything exceptional there, they did exactly what you'd expect a driver doing one stop fewer than everyone else, and stopping late to do.

[Traction]

Did Vettel really not go to Webber's reception?

If so that'll be a nightmare team situation for RB.

I thought the scene at the holding area before the podium was weird. Webber totally ignoring Newey and Seb and just go straight into talking with Alonso.

Anyway, its pretty obvious that relationship between the 2 have already reach a point of no return so it might be better to be real about it instead of pretending to be nice.

Rubbish, webber walked in, shook hands with Seb, turned to Newey and received a hug and a pat on the back and exchanged some some small talk...

[SectorOne]

No, they already did the testing, and know the limits of the Medium tyre. Knowing that you're going to get 7th at best with one strategy is not valid reason for choosing to go for a strategy that you know will send the tyres off the cliff, and leave you out of the points.

No i don´t think they do, first because of the reason i already said, then Mclaren going on the radio saying "we can do this other people have put X amount of laps easy on the tires"

So what if the cliff comes, he would have lost a whooping 2 points... again, two points.
I´d rather lose 2 points and take my chances on 6 or 8.

Banking the fastest lap does not mean that he had lots of tyres left – remember, these tyres perform very well until a set limit, and then destroy themselves within the space of half a lap.

There was more in them, he did not pit right after that either. These are not like the old tires this season.

But you don't have a huge amount of technical data. None of the teams thought that the tyres could do 30 laps, let alone 40.

They don´t have wear indicators on the car. They have temps and pressures, that´s about it.
It´s ultimately down to the driver, many times have we heard Hamilton say they pitted him too early.
That would be impossible if they actually had any real idea on what´s going on with the wear of the tires.

[beelsebob]

No, they already did the testing, and know the limits of the Medium tyre. Knowing that you're going to get 7th at best with one strategy is not valid reason for choosing to go for a strategy that you know will send the tyres off the cliff, and leave you out of the points.

No i don´t think they do, first because of the reason i already said, then Mclaren going on the radio saying "we can do this other people have put X amount of laps easy on the tires"

So what if the cliff comes, he would have lost a whooping 2 points... again, two points.
I´d rather lose 2 points and take my chances on 6 or 8.

The teams though would rather actually look at the stats, and will have figured out that a 95% chance of between 2 and 4 points is better than a 20% chance of 6-8 points.

Banking the fastest lap does not mean that he had lots of tyres left – remember, these tyres perform very well until a set limit, and then destroy themselves within the space of half a lap.

There was more in them, he did not pit right after that either. These are not like the old tires this season.

What makes you believe there was more in them?

But you don't have a huge amount of technical data. None of the teams thought that the tyres could do 30 laps, let alone 40.

They don´t have wear indicators on the car. They have temps and pressures, that´s about it.
It´s ultimately down to the driver, many times have we heard Hamilton say they pitted him too early.
That would be impossible if they actually had any real idea on what´s going on with the wear of the tires.

I've never heard that complaint. My understanding is that the way Merc run pit stops is that the driver decides when the first one happens, and then the team bases future pit stops off how well the first stint went. That pretty much makes it impossible to pit too early.

[SectorOne]

Stats have been broken several times, in 2011 nobody thought Vettel could go that long, he was force to do it and pulled it off.
Neither the teams nor Pirelli have been reliable in the exact life of tires through the years.
Ultimately the driver knows best.

There was more in them, he was flying.

Hungary 2012 i believe, definitely 2012 he complained saying the tires were better and he felt they pitted him too early.
Mercedes can choose whenever they want guys to pit. The only thing they have to consider is traffic when he gets out or if Rosberg is pitting on the same lap.

They should have tried, decided to play it safe and bank 2 points. My opinion.
This is the type of race you gamble on because you are F´d either way.

[turbof1]

Sectorone, there is one thing I need to remind you of: when you try to argue with beelsebob, you better come in prepared. That is one tuff nut to crack.

[QLDriver]

I think one thing that forced Merc to be conservative was that there was no radio with Lewis. You can't tell your driver to push like hell, or to save his tyres, if he can't hear anything you're saying. Without the puncture the race may have been very different.

Without the radio problems, the race may have been very different!

[spiritone]

Will this race put to bed the theory that merc is the fastest car, the most horsepower blah,blah blah. I think that red bull has proven conclusively that they have by far the best car over one lap, ten laps or a hundred laps doesn't matter. The fact that hamilton won all those poles was more about the driver than the car.

[raymondu999]

Similarly at Spain, Rosberg was passed very early in the race.

He wasn't passed at all. He was undercut in the stops.

I forgot to add in Bahrain, but that was a similar one to China (passed early)

[LionKing]

Will this race put to bed the theory that merc is the fastest car, the most horsepower blah,blah blah. I think that red bull has proven conclusively that they have by far the best car over one lap, ten laps or a hundred laps doesn't matter. The fact that hamilton won all those poles was more about the driver than the car.

Sure lets also ignore Rosberg's 3 poles in the process...

Front row starts: Ham/Vet: 8, Rosberg:4, Webber: 2

[spiritone]

Qualifying is about 1 lap. Red bull has had the measure of everyone in almost all the races. With them being able to win on supposedly the horsepower circuits, tell me where is this great horsepower of the mercs? Red bull has gotten stronger as the year goes on and has seemed to find even more pace in the last two races. I think renault has shown that they have the best all around motor.