Red Bull RB10 Renault

[LilDEF1]

Well I'd like to throw in my two cents on this issue of the teams cooling problems. I know most here say they think the problems can be easily solved or that it's not much of a problem but I think it could be. You really have to think about what has happened to see the potential seriousness of this problem.

Re-arranging components inside the car is not as easy as it seems. Remember when designing a car you design and test each component at the best possible location you have. You then place other components around the others. Changing one thing may mean total redesign or placement of the other components. Remember everything was already optimized and designed with the belief that there will be enough cooling around them.

The two cooling fixes they implemented seems like they didn't work [I could be mistaken here because there might have stopped running because of another mechanical problem. I read that a part was seen flying from the back] so the it could still be serious.

Now this one is the real worry. Newey and Horner had to leave on the third day of the test to go rush back for a solution. You don't just leave the first test during a revolution of F1 just because. Something serious must have been discovered, potentially FATAL. So much so that the car may have to be redesigned. I also think Daniel Ricciardo revealed more than he was supposed to. If you read what he said again you'd see that whatever they discovered could be significant.

Now the solution to this might be simple enough I don't know.. Good luck to them and hopefully we will see them in the next test with a working power unit so they could get on with it. As much as I am a Mercedes fan competition is best...

[Skippon]

I'm with LilDEF1.
if its more than just a minor increase in radiator design or air ducting, and more of a relocation of the electronics or energy store then it becomes a major rejig of the topology of the back of the car. At which point they have a serious challenge. Remember one of the reasons F1 designer react so fast in normal circumstance is that year on year the car design is incremental. Evolution not revolution is the usual mantra!!
The 3 manufacturer power units are revolution...

[bill shoe]

The Renault engine is lousy, the RB10 is extra-lousy, and Adrian Newey is going "back to the drawing board". Should we start a new thread for "Speculation on RB10-B"?

Could you enlighten us as to what would differentiate your RB-10B from the existing one?
Could you enlighten us what exactly is wrong with the Renault engine?
It seems you know more than the rest here.
Or was it sarcasm?

Here's a slightly more functional prediction than my RB10-B comment. Red Bull has the potential to be quickest once the engine issues are addressed. Engine issues are both Renault issues and RB installation issues. RB has potential to be quickest due to Vettel, Newey, and the best tea-tray deflection.

I think tea tray deflection is an under-rated issue so far this year, but once all the engines are good it will be THE issue of the current aero formula, perhaps like exhaust blowing was for the previous formula. Red Bull clearly mastered it in the second half of last year, and this year it's so important they have decided to shroud the RB10 teat-tray strut (!!) so the other teams and FIA can't see how effectively they're doing it.

So 2014 for RB is an issue of can they get the engine running properly early enough to stay in the championship hunt, or will the new engines kill their championship hopes by 4 or 5 races in? I think the later, and it will be interesting to see if Vettel can keep up his focus/attitude/work-ethic while he spends the season scrapping around in the midfield.

[shelly]

In my opinion the bodywork seen in jerez is too basic to be more than just a launch spec - but something has gone wrong.
SO the barhein spec will be more extreme, but with the needed mods for reliability

Since the problem appeared to be mainly localised hot spots I expect the modifications to be primarily internal re-arrangemeent of components plus modification of internal airflow. Therefore we might not see too much of the fixes for their current problems at least not with the sidepods on.
Maybe somewhat bigger hot air exhausts, they are very small at the moment compared to most others.

In my opinion the sidepod we saw are too big, and too squared to be representative, but surprisingly they have found probelems with that. The new solution will be much smaller and will incorporate the fixes for this Jerez test problems

[beelsebob]

In my opinion the sidepod we saw are too big, and too squared to be representative, but surprisingly they have found probelems with that. The new solution will be much smaller and will incorporate the fixes for this Jerez test problems

Haha, the side pods are not going to get smaller, I can guarantee you that.

[shelly]

In my opinion the sidepod we saw are too big, and too squared to be representative, but surprisingly they have found probelems with that. The new solution will be much smaller and will incorporate the fixes for this Jerez test problems

Haha, the side pods are not going to get smaller, I can guarantee you that.

Why do you think so? I know all the stuff about renault needing cooling etc, but the shape seems to simplr to be true - almost no double curvature surfaces. In my opinion, if they wanted to race sidepods with that volume the surfaces would have shown some more geometric complexity

[taperoo2k]

In my opinion the sidepod we saw are too big, and too squared to be representative, but surprisingly they have found probelems with that. The new solution will be much smaller and will incorporate the fixes for this Jerez test problems

Haha, the side pods are not going to get smaller, I can guarantee you that.

Why do you think so? I know all the stuff about renault needing cooling etc, but the shape seems to simplr to be true - almost no double curvature surfaces. In my opinion, if they wanted to race sidepods with that volume the surfaces would have shown some more geometric complexity

If the cooling issues are as serious as they look, then I'd expect the sidepods on the Red Bull to increase in size to take in more air to aid with the cooling, having a knock on effect for the aero performance. Look at Caterham's side pods. I think people tend to forget that Newey is capable of designing cars that are fast but fragile and sometimes just an utter mess. So the possibilities are -
1. There is a quick fix. Vettel sails on serenely as before.
2. There is a more complicated fix, but the car is still fragile.
3. It's a complete mess and requires a redesign that could knock Red Bull out of both championship races.

It's too early to write Red Bull off, just open to the possibilities of what might happen. Going on past Newey history here, which is a mixed bag. Especially the McLaren years.

[PlatinumZealot]

It's not the size of the side pods really, it is how effective the electronic cooling devices are.

[muelte]

Apparently not very effective, have a look at this:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ditroca/stat ... me=ditroca

It seems that was just after leaving boxes

[muelte]

Link does not seem to work without Twitter account, so:



"@ditroca: @joseluisf1 aquí tienes la foto del red bulll que te he comentado, foto via @fran_cervera"


Fire

[muelte]

Another one:

[henra]

Haha, the side pods are not going to get smaller, I can guarantee you that.

Initially probably not.
Over the season I'm not so sure.

The Problem doesn't necessarily have to be simply too small sidepods. It could be a combination of arranging heat sensitive components to close to hot objects plus internal airflow not being directed into the correct places. They might have to rearrange some components and then adapt the internal aerodynamics. I don't expect the external dimensions of the sidepods to change significantly - in neither direction.

[Maynard G. Krebs]

Based on comments I can recall (highly scientific), heat producing things are apparently too close to batteries. It would be hard to move that stuff around at the track, and introducing additional cooling didn't seem to help, so apparently they are going to have to move something. Hard to say how hard that will be, but... most other teams seem to have it figured out, so I would think Red Bull can figure it out too. They may only need to move something an inch and put some insulation in between. On the other hand, maybe they need a new battery or something more significant like that.

[hollowBallistix]

Considering ALL the Renault engine cars had issues, the route cause is probably down to Renault & not Red Bull, didn't one constructor have issues installing the engine because it didn't fit ?

Lotus knew there were problems with the power plant, now it's a race to see if Renault can fix their issues or if Red Bull need to compromise their design for the engine..

[Shakeman]

I think we can say two things, Renault has problems and that they are exacerbated by the RB team's installation.

There's a lot of people saying it'll be an easy fix and just a bit of moving around is required, I don't subscribe to this. But RB are not in the habit of leaving free space under their engine covers, no team does. So if things have to move, everything has to move like a sliding block puzzle. I know pipes can be extended or shortened or rerouted but still it must be a monumental undertaking to get it right and not compromise the CoG and aero philosophy of the car.