FIA-Ferrari PU Statement Controversy

[bluechris]

Im trying to understand everything that is discussed here and all over the internet..
To my mind FIA tried to find something in the Ferrari pu but found nothing. FIA did this after the accusations of Redbul basically. After so many months and a 2nd sensor they still didn't found it. Ferrari was dragged all this time with rumors as possible cheaters etc, even though a cheater is someone that is cought doing something illegal by the rules.
The settlement info came out and now the 2nd info from FIA basically not saying that Ferrari did something.
The other manufacturers don't know what Ferrari did or from a whistleblower know something generic but without proof. If they have proof then they fell to espionage and they cannot speak about it.

So where we are now? Again its simple, Ferrari have discovered something and they will not say it and none can force them to reveal it, even though they play the cat & the mouse game till the season starts.
Nothing will happen guys and the only thing that we will see is a Ferrari engine equal or less in power for the 1st 2-3 races and then will open up the vanes of power.

[timbo]

(b) improve their ability to measure compliance to the regulations.

They are adding a second sensor and plan a new one for 2021.

[Chene_Mostert]

Just a normal legal standard. It prevents prosecution based on feelings, thoughts and bias.
what "fields" are you referring to? circus field?

Any field where technical expertise is mandatory.

Legally, still requires material proof.

[bonjon1979]

Im trying to understand everything that is discussed here and all over the internet..
To my mind FIA tried to find something in the Ferrari pu but found nothing. FIA did this after the accusations of Redbul basically. After so many months and a 2nd sensor they still didn't found it. Ferrari was dragged all this time with rumors as possible cheaters etc, even though a cheater is someone that is cought doing something illegal by the rules.
The settlement info came out and now the 2nd info from FIA basically not saying that Ferrari did something.
The other manufacturers don't know what Ferrari did or from a whistleblower know something generic but without proof. If they have proof then they fell to espionage and they cannot speak about it.

So where we are now? Again its simple, Ferrari have discovered something and they will not say it and none can force them to reveal it, even though they play the cat & the mouse game till the season starts.
Nothing will happen guys and the only thing that we will see is a Ferrari engine equal or less in power for the 1st 2-3 races and then will open up the vanes of power.

Cloud cuckoo land. Ferrari already lost their performance after the us gp. They won’t have the same performance next year. The teams know what Ferrari were up to as they were the ones that told the FIA. The truth will come out, either the FIA will be forced into saying what was suspect or the other teams, probably red bull will just come out and say it at some point.

[turbof1]

Following accusations from rival teams (but with no team having protested). The governing body (FIA) said it wasn’t confident that it could prove FERRARI had been in breach of the rules. (Material impossibility to provide the unequivocal evidence of a breach).

I think most people would have been much more accepting if they came with this the first time. However, there are few things now to consider:
-The FIA wasn't sure how to get down to evidence.
-There is a settlement in place now

I am not saying immediately that Ferrari did effectively broke the regulations, I think that really has to be proven frankly, but reaching a settlement could very well imply there is a guilt confession from Ferrari in exchange for exconerating Ferrari of any legal action, plus Ferrari has to help with preventing this in the future. Building on that, the FIA does look to be resource/technical unable to unravel power unit complexities despite this being the 7th season with these drive trains, so it makes a deal with Ferrari to avoid this situation in the future.

If this is the correct reflection of what has transpired, then there are problems:
-Such a deal is preferable if only 2 parties involved, but with so many stakeholders it really is not.
-It involves literally dozens of millions of price money.
-Furthermore, should aid from Ferrari entail them having access to power units of the competition when the FIA calls for help, then they are looking at intellectual property from others and potentially can integrate that into their own power unit.

Whatever the case is, the FIA did not just made a deal with Ferrari, but also enforced that deal on others.

[Chene_Mostert]

Im trying to understand everything that is discussed here and all over the internet..
To my mind FIA tried to find something in the Ferrari pu but found nothing. FIA did this after the accusations of Redbul basically. After so many months and a 2nd sensor they still didn't found it. Ferrari was dragged all this time with rumors as possible cheaters etc, even though a cheater is someone that is cought doing something illegal by the rules.
The settlement info came out and now the 2nd info from FIA basically not saying that Ferrari did something.
The other manufacturers don't know what Ferrari did or from a whistleblower know something generic but without proof. If they have proof then they fell to espionage and they cannot speak about it.

So where we are now? Again its simple, Ferrari have discovered something and they will not say it and none can force them to reveal it, even though they play the cat & the mouse game till the season starts.
Nothing will happen guys and the only thing that we will see is a Ferrari engine equal or less in power for the 1st 2-3 races and then will open up the vanes of power.

Cloud cuckoo land. Ferrari already lost their performance after the us gp. They won’t have the same performance next year. The teams know what Ferrari were up to as they were the ones that told the FIA. The truth will come out, either the FIA will be forced into saying what was suspect or the other teams, probably red bull will just come out and say it at some point.

They must do it. The other teams should supply all the technical details of the Ferrari PU.
Then we can ask how did they get it.

[Xwang]

No news yet from the "The Magnificent Seven" ?

[Chene_Mostert]

No news yet from the "The Magnificent Seven" ?

I think they got their powder wet

[turbof1]

No news yet from the "The Magnificent Seven" ?

That's a nice name

They'll take their time. I assume they will communicate with one another first and see how they can move forward. It'll likely be you'll have to wait for their reaction until Melbourne. Well unless Helmut Marko blabs something out.

[Mrdobolina]

Following accusations from rival teams (but with no team having protested). The governing body (FIA) said it wasn’t confident that it could prove FERRARI had been in breach of the rules. (Material impossibility to provide the unequivocal evidence of a breach).

I think most people would have been much more accepting if they came with this the first time. However, there are few things now to consider:
-The FIA wasn't sure how to get down to evidence.
-There is a settlement in place now

I am not saying immediately that Ferrari did effectively broke the regulations, I think that really has to be proven frankly, but reaching a settlement could very well imply there is a guilt confession from Ferrari in exchange for exconerating Ferrari of any legal action, plus Ferrari has to help with preventing this in the future. Building on that, the FIA does look to be resource/technical unable to unravel power unit complexities despite this being the 7th season with these drive trains, so it makes a deal with Ferrari to avoid this situation in the future.

In some ways FIA failed if they cannot prove illegality. It would be like telling teams that flow rate over 100kg/h is not permitted, but didn't install a flow sensor. I think in this case Ferrari outsmarted the FIA however. Of course other teams are upset because they still don't know how, whether it is actually closed by the second fuel sensor.

[Unc1eM0nty]

No news yet from the "The Magnificent Seven" ?

That's a nice name

They'll take their time. I assume they will communicate with one another first and see how they can move forward. It'll likely be you'll have to wait for their reaction until Melbourne. Well unless Helmut Marko blabs something out.

The seven will have already thought through all the possible responses from both parties, now as you say its a waiting game, timing is everything, they will want it to peak at the first race for maximum exposure.

[saviour stivala]

Following accusations from rival teams (but with no team having protested). The governing body (FIA) said it wasn’t confident that it could prove FERRARI had been in breach of the rules. (Material impossibility to provide the unequivocal evidence of a breach).

I think most people would have been much more accepting if they came with this the first time. However, there are few things now to consider:
-The FIA wasn't sure how to get down to evidence.
-There is a settlement in place now

I am not saying immediately that Ferrari did effectively broke the regulations, I think that really has to be proven frankly, but reaching a settlement could very well imply there is a guilt confession from Ferrari in exchange for exconerating Ferrari of any legal action, plus Ferrari has to help with preventing this in the future. Building on that, the FIA does look to be resource/technical unable to unravel power unit complexities despite this being the 7th season with these drive trains, so it makes a deal with Ferrari to avoid this situation in the future.

If this is the correct reflection of what has transpired, then there are problems:
-Such a deal is preferable if only 2 parties involved, but with so many stakeholders it really is not.
-It involves literally dozens of millions of price money.
-Furthermore, should aid from Ferrari entail them having access to power units of the competition when the FIA calls for help, then they are looking at intellectual property from others and potentially can integrate that into their own power unit.

Whatever the case is, the FIA did not just made a deal with Ferrari, but also enforced that deal on others.

Yes agree that it really has yet to be proven that FERRARI did effectively broke the rules/regulations. So until than that’s where the situation stands at. Anything beyond that point is mare speculation/supposition and wishful thinking.

[turbof1]

In some ways FIA failed if they cannot prove illegality. It would be like telling teams that flow rate over 100kg/h is not permitted, but didn't install a flow sensor. I think in this case Ferrari outsmarted the FIA however. Of course other teams are upset because they still don't know how, whether it is actually closed by the second fuel sensor.

I am a little bit split myself on that one:
-Yes, you can reason that the FIA failed. After all, they are the ruling body that has to judge in a clear way about these instances. If they can't conclusively, then that puts the governing body into doubt, undermining authority it has and that might lead to anarchy down the road. Teams settling cases at public courts instead of inside the sport, reputation damage and maybe even flagrant neglection of abiding the rule book due to not accepting the FIA as an authoritive body.

-On the other hand, things can get practically infinitely complex. And the FIA did seem to try to get down to it, but was unable to. Be a shortage of resources, be it a shortage of expertise. Getting expertise can be extremely difficult, because you certainly cannot ask direct competitors in F1 for help, but also not other engine builders. There is a lot of intellectual property going on and finding truly independent experts who will keep any specific qualities of a specific power unit for themselves, that is difficult.

Honestly, I would preferred if the FIA just admitted last Friday they weren't able to make sense of the complexity. That would atleast have creating understanding.

[Schumix]

Im trying to understand everything that is discussed here and all over the internet..
To my mind FIA tried to find something in the Ferrari pu but found nothing. FIA did this after the accusations of Redbul basically. After so many months and a 2nd sensor they still didn't found it. Ferrari was dragged all this time with rumors as possible cheaters etc, even though a cheater is someone that is cought doing something illegal by the rules.
The settlement info came out and now the 2nd info from FIA basically not saying that Ferrari did something.
The other manufacturers don't know what Ferrari did or from a whistleblower know something generic but without proof. If they have proof then they fell to espionage and they cannot speak about it.

So where we are now? Again its simple, Ferrari have discovered something and they will not say it and none can force them to reveal it, even though they play the cat & the mouse game till the season starts.
Nothing will happen guys and the only thing that we will see is a Ferrari engine equal or less in power for the 1st 2-3 races and then will open up the vanes of power.

Cloud cuckoo land. Ferrari already lost their performance after the us gp. They won’t have the same performance next year. The teams know what Ferrari were up to as they were the ones that told the FIA. The truth will come out, either the FIA will be forced into saying what was suspect or the other teams, probably red bull will just come out and say it at some point.

They must do it. The other teams should supply all the technical details of the Ferrari PU.
Then we can ask how did they get it.

Although the FIA has been very poor in terms of communication, but after their 2nd press release and the differents approaches between Ferrari & Mercedes during 2020 pre-season testing, we may now starting to understand (speculate?) one of the reason why Mercedes, more than the other teams, was so carefully watching the performance of the Ferrari PU.

We can even anticipate now the big political fight that is coming ahead if Ferrari PU 2020 is clearly the best during 2020 season, especially in the 2nd part of the season. In anticipation of this big political fight, rivals especially Mercedes urgently need to understand what Ferrari is doing. It may be vital for them in case of close fight for the championships. This is F1, this is how the game is.

[turbof1]

Following accusations from rival teams (but with no team having protested). The governing body (FIA) said it wasn’t confident that it could prove FERRARI had been in breach of the rules. (Material impossibility to provide the unequivocal evidence of a breach).

I think most people would have been much more accepting if they came with this the first time. However, there are few things now to consider:
-The FIA wasn't sure how to get down to evidence.
-There is a settlement in place now

I am not saying immediately that Ferrari did effectively broke the regulations, I think that really has to be proven frankly, but reaching a settlement could very well imply there is a guilt confession from Ferrari in exchange for exconerating Ferrari of any legal action, plus Ferrari has to help with preventing this in the future. Building on that, the FIA does look to be resource/technical unable to unravel power unit complexities despite this being the 7th season with these drive trains, so it makes a deal with Ferrari to avoid this situation in the future.

If this is the correct reflection of what has transpired, then there are problems:
-Such a deal is preferable if only 2 parties involved, but with so many stakeholders it really is not.
-It involves literally dozens of millions of price money.
-Furthermore, should aid from Ferrari entail them having access to power units of the competition when the FIA calls for help, then they are looking at intellectual property from others and potentially can integrate that into their own power unit.

Whatever the case is, the FIA did not just made a deal with Ferrari, but also enforced that deal on others.

Anything beyond that point is mare speculation/supposition and wishful thinking.

I would disagree in part here. There's a feeding base for the suspicion now. Juricidally Ferrari is for now still innocent, but there is now a stain, be it correct or incorrect, on their brand. There are right now 2 possible outcomes:
-Either Ferrari is actually innocent but due to how the FIA handled it and communicated, their reputation is now tarnished.
-Or Ferrari is not innocent and did break the rules.

I think anybody, no matter on which side of the fence you are, would agree neither option is a positive outcome. The situation as it is now is completely undesirable. Therefore, the situation has to be cleared out, be it to prove Ferrari's innocence or guilt.