Belgian GP 2009 - Spa Francorchamps

[PlatinumZealot]

Remember Austrian GP 2003? Every driver left track at the exit of first corner EVERY lap.
Nobody was ever penalized by overtaking on the outside.

Yes I do remeber that race, and I also remember very clearly that the issue was raised in the drivers meeting before that very event and that it was unanimously agreed by the stewards and the drivers that an exception to the rule would be made in that corner. As far as I know no such exception was given for Spa 2009.

So even if Kimi went in 14th and came out in 1st you would still say it's OK?

[siskue2005]

#F1 I'm sorry, did they just say Badoer has set a fastest sector time? What sector was it? The PIT LANE?

it was Sector 1

[siskue2005]

Remember Austrian GP 2003? Every driver left track at the exit of first corner EVERY lap.
Nobody was ever penalized by overtaking on the outside.

Yes I do remeber that race, and I also remember very clearly that the issue was raised in the drivers meeting before that very event and that it was unanimously agreed by the stewards and the drivers that an exception to the rule would be made in that corner. As far as I know no such exception was given for Spa 2009.

So even if Kimi went in 14th and came out in 1st you would still say it's OK?

there is no ifs and buts in life

[James]

Remember Austrian GP 2003? Every driver left track at the exit of first corner EVERY lap.
Nobody was ever penalized by overtaking on the outside.

Yes I do remeber that race, and I also remember very clearly that the issue was raised in the drivers meeting before that very event and that it was unanimously agreed by the stewards and the drivers that an exception to the rule would be made in that corner. As far as I know no such exception was given for Spa 2009.

So even if Kimi went in 14th and came out in 1st you would still say it's OK?

show me the law against breaking the space time continuum!

[CMSMJ1]

What a messy thread this has turned out to be. Yuu should all have a look at you posting and see how much crap you have written.

No need for the polarised opinions ref Kimi and LH

[ISLAMATRON]

really, all that needed to be posted was the Video, but for those wearing red tinted glasses, it did not register.

[Steven]

What a messy thread this has turned out to be. Yuu should all have a look at you posting and see how much crap you have written.

No need for the polarised opinions ref Kimi and LH

Exactly my thoughts.

Instead of trying to argue until one folds, all you guys here should better think of a way to avoid this kind of arguable off-track excursions. Obviously Kimi fans will see no harm, while others believe the racing should go on on the track, rather than off of it.

Honestly I cannot believe some threads come this far, and some consideration before posting stone-throws at a fellow forumer might be in place.

Thank you.

[PlatinumZealot]

Second longest race thread! The longest is Australia.. Both threads have controversial off track excursions! interesting..

[Roland Ehnström]

Remember Austrian GP 2003? Every driver left track at the exit of first corner EVERY lap.
Nobody was ever penalized by overtaking on the outside.

Yes I do remeber that race, and I also remember very clearly that the issue was raised in the drivers meeting before that very event and that it was unanimously agreed by the stewards and the drivers that an exception to the rule would be made in that corner. As far as I know no such exception was given for Spa 2009.

So even if Kimi went in 14th and came out in 1st you would still say it's OK?

Me? I've been saying all along that Kimi should definately have been penalized, read my post again. I was talking about the Austrian GP 2003, brought up by timbo in a reply to an earlier post of mine.

[Roland Ehnström]

@CMSMJ1 and Tomba: What is the harm of having long discussions? It only shows that people care. It's a good thing!

As for this issue I must agree with ISLAMATRON, though. The rule book clearly sais that you can't gain an advantage by running outside the white lines, and the video replay clearly shows Kimi gaining an advantage by running outside the white lines. Case closed.

[CMSMJ1]

@ Roland - nothing wrong with a long discussion about the Belgian GP..

We may as well have been talking about whether man landed on the moon though. People have opinions and won't deviate from them - that is no longer a discussion it is almost close to fighting..

You all know that people cut the white lines. It happens at most tracks most of the time. It has a blind eye turned to it for the most part and always has done. All of a sudden, the partisan crowds decide that someone who they like/dislike has transgressed the rules as they are written. Out with the lynch mob and take no prisoners.

I don't know if the majority of these biased posts are from younger people without so much experience of the world and their place in it. This is a place for technical discussions about F1. Not tribalism regarding drivers or teams which serves to detract from the main point of us all being here.

We have a shared interest. We would probably love to go for a pint and a chat with 99% of the people on here and talk about F1 etc... If we did that I doubt the spoken word would be as harshly put as the written word has been earlier in this thread and on other posts in the forum.

I hope you understand what I mean?

ref this race - and on topic. It was an interesting duel indeed although not a classic but with the points leader out and none of the other contenders able to maount much of a challenge it would seem lady luck is smiling for Jenson this season.

Peace out

[Miguel]

You all know that people cut the white lines. It happens at most tracks most of the time. It has a blind eye turned to it for the most part and always has done. All of a sudden, the partisan crowds decide that someone who they like/dislike has transgressed the rules as they are written. Out with the lynch mob and take no prisoners.

The issue is not crossing the white line with your left front wheel. The issue is that, at some places in some tracks, people have benefited from flooring the throttle outside the track. Please note that, unless many other things, it is very easy to define mathematically inside and outside in the circuits appearing on the calendar. I'm 99% sure that also holds in Suzuka, since it was not designed by Moebius.

We've seen it in the new Hockenheim (hairpin, see Schumacher and Trulli 2003), in Magny-Cours (Hamilton 2008) and we've had people flooring it off track in la Source ever since that part was modified for 2007. The truth is, some people had the right track position and performed the normal overtaking trick: using the full track width so that the guy behind has to lift a little. This doesn't happen in la Source at the start. The drivers on the outside have on many occasions (at least Hamilton 2007, Alonso 2008*, Kimi 2009) floored the throttle there.

I know the reason there's a lot of space there can be traced back to the unbelievable 1998 start, but I honestly think we need at least two more metres of astroturf.

* The 2008 start. Excuse the quality and note Bourdais pushing Trulli into Alonso. Out of the track, Trulli seems to lift. Alonso doesn't.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxJy6Pec ... re=related[/youtube]

[Roland Ehnström]

All of a sudden, the partisan crowds decide that someone who they like/dislike has transgressed the rules as they are written. Out with the lynch mob and take no prisoners.

I can't speak for others, but that's simply not true with me. I actually like Kimi more than most F1 drivers, but it doesn't mean that I am completely blind.

I don't know if the majority of these biased posts are from younger people without so much experience of the world and their place in it. This is a place for technical discussions about F1. Not tribalism regarding drivers or teams which serves to detract from the main point of us all being here.

We have a shared interest. We would probably love to go for a pint and a chat with 99% of the people on here and talk about F1 etc... If we did that I doubt the spoken word would be as harshly put as the written word has been earlier in this thread and on other posts in the forum.

I hope you understand what I mean?

I do, but I also think that some of what you see as harsh is in the "eye of the reader". It is very easy to misunderstand eachother in writing; it's very easy to over-interpret something as harsh or completely out of line when it was actually never intended as such by the writer.

The only "bad" posts I've seen in this thread are those with pictures of crying babies a few pages back, those to me cross the line. But I can choose to ignore them and carry on trying to build a constructive argument. Or I can simply choose to ignore the thread altogether, if I feel it's gone out of hand. But to try actually to stop a discussion on a discussion board is kinda pointless.

[CMSMJ1]

Thanks Miguel, Roland.

On the lines issue - when was the last time somebody was actually penalised for it?

I recall Lewis penalty for cutting the chicane but I do not recall that there has been a penalty for the cutting of white lines and gaining an advantage.

Remember Monza - 1994/1995? They placed tyres on the insides of the chicanes to stop cutting. Perhaps the edges need to be defined and the rules actually imposed better?

I personally have no problem with the starts at Spa or with Sutil's pass on Badoer etc - These situations were brought about by extraordinalry circumstances . i.e the start and an apex speed 20mph slower than the other driver.

I don;t want to be seen as asking for discussion to stop..just that the immediate reaction posts that are insulting and plain useless are stopped - like the babies, the racism and the denigrating of a poster rather than the post.

Only 3 days to go..I can work from home and watch the pracitce for Monza...all will be well!

[deepforezt]

hi guys ..it seems people are criticising kimi for using kers and cutting the chicane in the first corner... and i dont understand why? KERS is an option for everybody and only them and mclaren are running it now.everybdy can run it ..so why criticising him.