Mercedes GP - Inauguration and 1st season

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I think the learning curve Schumacher had this year has somthing to do with it.
Zeph I think thats what you are saying?

I would agree, but Renault do have the same issue with Petrov. However, I certainly see Renault favouring Kubica more within the team than either Schuey or Rosberg.
So his potential to earn most the points is greater as his role in the team suggests.

You see both Schumacher and Petrov well beaten in terms of their team mates for various reasons. Schumacher because he has been out of a single seater for 3 years, and at 41 hardly a spring chicken, and Petrov because he is new to F1.

Schumacher should be doing better, he admits that. So lets see what the rest of this year has in store. My money is on him still having a great race in him.

[zeph]

Yeah, Renault would likely do better with a more experienced no.2, but Petrov is stepping up to the plate nicely, IMO.

Still, my point is that Mercedes is really not doing all that badly. Especially if the 2009 season was just a fluke, as some here seem to suggest. Compared to the results they got as Honda I would have thought this year seems to be going pretty well. In spite of Schu's struggles.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

What we have to prove here is whether anyone has actually left the team in that department.

350 staff gone in 8 months not enough?
And when does CORE, which is less than half of a whole, mean ring fenced and untouched?

For you segedunum, as you appear to not be able to understand the meaning of core.

(n.) The most important part of a thing; the essence; as, the core of a subject.
The heart or inner part of a thing, as of a column, wall, rope, of a boil, etc.; especially, the central part of fruit, containing the kernels or seeds; as, the core of an apple or quince.

n.) The most important part of a thing; the essence; as, the core of a subject.


So what I have been saying all along is you cannot lose 40-50% of your work force without it having an effect.
Somthing you say shouldnt happen... [...]

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Yeah, Renault would likely do better with a more experienced no.2, but Petrov is stepping up to the plate nicely, IMO.

Still, my point is that Mercedes is really not doing all that badly. Especially if the 2009 season was just a fluke, as some here seem to suggest. Compared to the results they got as Honda I would have thought this year seems to be going pretty well. In spite of Schu's struggles.

Precisley

Honda as a 400 million dollar entity produced 2 woeful cars in 07 and 08, yet here in 2010 they are in 4th with half what they had then.
Some people just have nothing better to do than jump down a teams throat for reasons only they can explain.

[segedunum]

350 staff gone in 8 months not enough?And when does CORE, which is less than half of a whole, mean ring fenced and untouched?

None of those losses touched the technical team or their resources - as you admitted in an unguarded moment. You're now backtracking your definition on that one.

For you segedunum, as you appear to not be able to understand the meaning of core.

You're hair splitting and squirming right, left and centre. The core of the team is the technical department. You can call the technical team they've had in place CORE or not - the fact is that they're the people who decide whether the car is fast or not and they haven't changed.

Your redefinition of the context in which you wrote that doesn't alter anything I'm afraid and it's just a diversion. If you see a spade, then it's a spade. [...]

[segedunum]

Still, my point is that Mercedes is really not doing all that badly........Compared to the results they got as Honda I would have thought this year seems to be going pretty well.

That's not exactly one of the wisest comparisons you could have made............

[xpensive]

Expensive,
The core of the design team are still there apart from 1 notable...Zander, Brawn made sure he kept his brightest and most talented.
...

I would be intrigued to see a list of those "brightest and most talented" in the Brackley design team?

[segedunum]

Honda as a 400 million dollar entity produced 2 woeful cars in 07 and 08, yet here in 2010 they are in 4th with half what they had then.

You keep displaying this consistent flaw in logic. You're assuming that the whole of the team is contributing directly to the speed of the car and extrapolating that if they halve their numbers then they'll be half as good.

It's also a pretty desperate way to view this year, to base it on past performances with Honda as 'not as bad' in comparison, and won't impress the board at Mercedes. I wouldn't want to have to do that presentation, I can tell you.

[marcush.]

Not right.
Honda had the whole entity of Super Aguri working on concepts and it is rumoured they came up with some of the ideas that made the BGP01 so fast.
When had a team two development groups working in paralell at the same project..you can go back and forth with your windtunnel models CFd everything and compare the results...
it cost monster money but would Brawn have teken the risk if he had not KNOWN he had the
jackpot in his hand already?

so they lost Preston and his group when SA was auctioned.
then they lost Zander :
http://www.jz-engineering.com/

looking at the Website he seems to be the 3d upgrade of some Anderson of USA.. theres nothing he does not know... and can do...




with reference to presentations one would rather Not having to do...
I´ve seen Presentations with a lot less to cheer about but still sold as an achievement..

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I tell you what Segedunum,

As you think that halving the workforce has NO effect, Why the f*** do Mclaren and Red Bull Ferrari bother employing 650 630 and 900 staff respectivley?

Because by your "logic"(term used very generously) they would be able to cut that down to 400 and suffer no performance shortfall AT ALL!

You keep displaying this consistent flaw in logic. You're assuming that the whole of the team is contributing directly to the speed of the car and extrapolating that if they halve their numbers then they'll be half as good.

Half the numbers does not mean half as good, If that was the case Red Bull would have lapped Schumacher 25 times in Hungary, so the flaw sits in your defintion my friend.
Just standing still in F1 is going backwards at a rate of knots, and losing that much staff can only have a negative effect.

Honestly now, can you give me a valid reason why losing 350 staff during the course of a year will have a positive effect on a team?

[xpensive]

Today's conspiracy theory, my treat.

Consider this, Ross Brawn put everything on one card when designing the 2009 car with a highly controversial diffuser, imagine the mess if it had been thrown out from the first race? He must have worked in collusion with his old employer and ally, MrM, who had his own agenda for upsetting the FOTA applecart, why Brawn knew beforehand that it would be approved, against all sensible logic.

But as soon as everyone cought up in 2010, they were back to square one.

[zeph]

This is probably just gonna add fuel to the fire, but a few facts:

2007- Ross Brawn takes a sabbatical
2008- He returns as team principal for Honda
2009- He wins the double

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Brawn

I wouldn't count him out yet.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Today's conspiracy theory, my treat.


But as soon as everyone cought up in 2010, they were back to square one.

Whats that? Red Bull Destroying the field?

Thats a new square!

[andrew]

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=41736

Bit of Merc info on engine costs. Sorry it is from the Daily Star of the F1 website world.

[aral]

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=41736

Bit of Merc info on engine costs. Sorry it is from the Daily Star of the F1 website world.

Surprise, surprise! Isn't there meant to be a developement freeze anyway, so there should in fact be an even bigger saving.