Strange going-ons at Red Bull

[vall]

Contrary to popular perception I think that Red Bull was right to favor their faster driver by a team order in Turkey. They would have had an advantage if Vettel would have opened a gap to Webber. IMO team mates should not fight when the opposition is in immediate striking distance behind them. The team needs every advantage that it can gain in such circumstances.

Do not twist the fasts. When did you see Vettel was faster? We became faster only when Webbo switched to fuel saving mode, and this would have lasted just one more lap and Vettel would have switched to fuel savign as well. He would not be able to open a gap to Webbo [-X

[WhiteBlue]

Contrary to popular perception I think that Red Bull was right to favor their faster driver by a team order in Turkey. They would have had an advantage if Vettel would have opened a gap to Webber. IMO team mates should not fight when the opposition is in immediate striking distance behind them. The team needs every advantage that it can gain in such circumstances.

Do not twist the fasts. When did you see Vettel was faster? We became faster only when Webbo switched to fuel saving mode, and this would have lasted just one more lap and Vettel would have switched to fuel savign as well. He would not be able to open a gap to Webbo [-X

I'm not twisting facts.

1. Vettel was fastest around the Ottodrome in qualifying as long as his car was undamaged.

2. He had more fuel and better tyres as you even confirmed yourself. How can you know it would not have been enough to open a gap? Sometimes even one or two seconds help.

3. I have clearly explained why team mates should not fight each other at all. If Vettel had taken the lead his consumption would have gone up and Webber could have overtaken him later again. No need to run into each other by dumb position fights. I would simply forbid them to make any defensive moves against each other. Whoever is faster in a given moment has the right to pass. I would kick both these guys like hell if I were Didi Mateschitz and they were wasting hundreds of millions invested to make the team win a championship. Whoever next pulled a stunt like Silverstone from the two drivers would get a serious penalty by the team if that were my team.

[mr moda]

A more balanced person or a person with more team spirit would probably have not felt as much grief as Webber. .

You are making assumptions in regards to a persons mental state. Stick to the facts please.

[rayden]

And here we see that Mark Webber is still not seen as the favorite Red Bull driver by the betting money. I share the view of the smart money in this case. Perhaps the teams has a similar perception but they promised to give any new components in short supply to Mark Webber for the next race based on the WDC leader rule. So I think they cannot be accused of favoritism.

i think the betting money knows that seb is fighting with the team behind him, and mark is fighting with one arm behind his back.

hence seb still having slightly better odds.

usually in this situation seb would have much shorter odds, but mark showed alot of determination over the weekend, the type of determination required for a full on wdc assault.

seb on the other hand showed the complete opposite. dawdling around a second off the pace after his puncture(team giving him a hurry up over the radio at one point), and only putting some effort in when the safety car dropped everyone under his nose.

[mr moda]

As I have stated before, I find it highly amusing to think that a team would base there decisions on Johnny bookmakers odds from down the street.
And please can we lose the graphs.

[WhiteBlue]

A more balanced person or a person with more team spirit would probably have not felt as much grief as Webber. .

You are making assumptions in regards to a persons mental state. Stick to the facts please.

My disappointment on Saturday after qualifying spilled over into Sunday. .. Things get said in the heat of the moment which, with hindsight goggles on, probably shouldn’t have been said.

Here you have it from the horses mouth. Disappointment led him to say things he regrets afterwards. A person with less emotional impetus and more rational control over his talk - a more balanced person - would have avoided that.

If we think that the above statement was spin it looks even worse for Mr. Webber. Then we would conclude that the Sunday media circus was a premeditated psyop.

As I have stated before, I find it highly amusing to think that a team would base there decisions on Johnny bookmakers odds from down the street.
And please can we lose the graphs.

I do not understand why you object to a graphic representation of the WDC table. Similarly why is it objectionable to show the history of WDC betting odds over the season? We can use it as a reality check how a wider public body (the people putting money on drivers) has rated the drivers over the season.

It surely makes sense to understand the expectations of the betting market when we talk about the strange things going on at Red Bull. If Red Bull were in fact favoring a driver (which I don't think they do) they need to consider the public perception of their drivers.

[mr moda]

Well going by your explanation that would mean the whole grid is unstable.

[WhiteBlue]

Well going by your explanation that would mean the whole grid is unstable.

No it doesn't. The rest of the grid never exposed their teams to an embarrassing media circus. The other drivers did not have to make excuses for their public statements later. It is an exclusive Webber phenomenon.

[mr moda]

No your correct. No other driver has NEVER exposed their anger about their team to the media. NEVER.

[mr moda]

By the way everyone if you would now like to correct Wb,s statement please start now.

I will kick it off with Alonso - McLaren. Nope no media circus there.

[WhiteBlue]

Well going by your explanation that would mean the whole grid is unstable.

No it doesn't. The rest of the grid never exposed their teams to an embarrassing media circus. The other drivers did not have to make excuses for their public statements later. It is an exclusive Webber phenomenon.

By the way everyone if you would now like to correct Wb,s statement please start now.

I will kick it off with Alonso - McLaren. Nope no media circus there.

If I remember it right Fernando tried to blackmail Ron Dennis and he sure said a bunch of non complimentary things, but he never retreated three days after the statement and said he over reacted. My memory may not serve me right, so you can help me with providing the respective quotations.

But I give you a point there, Fernando Alonso's media actions in 2007 did not help his reputation as a team player. In that regard he is similar to MW in 2010.

[mr moda]

Actually I will also add Hamilton - McLaren. The infamous spin on it comment to Dennis over the radio.

[mr moda]

Ah yes. Barichello -Honda/Brawn. First part of the season was quite happy to tell the media he was not getting the same spec as Button.

[WhiteBlue]

Hamilton and Barichello did not retreat. They just complained publicly and their teams told the press the complaints were unfounded. That was similar to Mark Webber's case, I give you that. But not quite the same.

I actually think we are getting a bit OT with this comparison. Your claim that the whole grid acts like Webber will be different to prove. So I suggest we go back to the topic of strange things at Red Bull.

[mr moda]

A person with less emotional impetus and more rational control over his talk - a more balanced person - would have avoided that.

That is what you wrote.

What I have done is given 3 examples of drivers who have become emotional and " imbalanced". This is extremely common in ALL sports. To single out Webber as you have, I feel is unjustified, farcial and based on a very unrealistic understanding of the pressures in an elite sport. Even Vettel after the incident in Turkey took it upon himself to signal to the crowd and cameras what he thought of Webber. Doesnt matter who you are, sometimes the anger boils over.