2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[LionsHeart]

My god dude, it went wrong for them because 1, the car puts more energy into the tires to begin with, and 2, because they clearly missed the mark with the setup. You can believe whatever you want to believe about tires and whether or not they can heat up after two corners (they can), but at least have a proper counter-argument.

It's not because of cold tires ...
If it was a problem of not putting enough heat into the tires they would have been out in q1 with the hards.

I'm talking about how the drivers prepared their tires for a fast lap. You're talking about completely different things.

How are you going to create high energy on the tires when the asphalt is smooth and there is little downforce? I don't understand. But I understand when this is really possible. When the asphalt is abrasive and there is a lot of downforce. Then, yes, a lot of energy is transferred to the tires.

Once again, look at Pirelli's data. It doesn't say that the Miami track puts a lot of stress on the tires.

I am done arguing. You're taking way too many things for face value while simplifying matters to very few variables (and even then, you are wrong, because relatively speaking, low downforce for an F1 car is still high downforce. And asphalt abrasion is relevant to some extent, but that's why we have 5 compounds, so that Pirelli can pick the 3 softest sets that can deal with the track).

But just one last thing to close things off from my side, since you can't seem to believe tires can quickly heat up after 1-2 corners and quickly cool-off in a straight. There you go :

I remember those thermal chambers well. Only it was necessary to show the rear tires, not the front ones. Secondly, I remember when these cameras appeared and how long it took to set them up so that people could understand more clearly how everything works. I could cite many other onboards where you can see how the tires don’t really heat up. And the point is not in the tires, but in how the camera is calibrated.

I already read Lando's comments and saw what he said. Why didn't this happen here last year? Since when did McLaren have a weak rear end? But their chassis has the highest traction among its rivals.

I remember 2013, when the soft tires lasted for half a lap, then they started to fail. But it is incredible for the tires to overheat during the first two turns, where the load is not extremely high. Let me say this, I don't believe the rear tires were overheated.

The surface layer may have been overheated, but not the sidewall or frame.

[LionsHeart]

I'm talking about how the drivers prepared their tires for a fast lap. You're talking about completely different things.

How are you going to create high energy on the tires when the asphalt is smooth and there is little downforce? I don't understand. But I understand when this is really possible. When the asphalt is abrasive and there is a lot of downforce. Then, yes, a lot of energy is transferred to the tires.

Once again, look at Pirelli's data. It doesn't say that the Miami track puts a lot of stress on the tires.

Downforce does not generate heat in the tyre. Cornering, braking and acceleration does. Or just in general - acceleration, both radial and tangential. Downforce, tyre compound, asphalt surface etc are some of the ingridients that determine how fast you can corner.

I didn't expect to hear something like this from you. How does downforce not affect the tire load? What is this, a joke? More downforce, more grip in a corner, more speed you can take into a corner, the higher the load on the tires and the higher their temperature. To warm up the tire carcass and sidewall, downforce is also required.

And why are you showing me these onboards with thermal cameras? Do you think I've never seen them before?

Everyone writes about overheating, but no one said what the temperature of the asphalt was. Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't see any data on asphalt temperatures for Friday. This may have confused me.

I’ll add: Lando said that he made a couple of mistakes in the first turn, and then everything went like a snowball. Sorry, but I can’t wrap my head around how tires can instantly overheat. Maybe he just stepped on the accelerator aggressively? Then the first skid, the second skid, and now there is overheating of the working layer of the tires. Yes, that's how I can agree. But not with the fact that it is realistic to overheat the tires already after the second turn.

[Vanja #66]

I didn't expect to hear something like this from you. How does downforce not affect the tire load? What is this, a joke? More downforce, more grip in a corner, more speed you can take into a corner, the higher the load on the tires and the higher their temperature. To warm up the tire carcass and sidewall, downforce is also required.

You do know there's more downforce at the end of the straight than any corner, right?

Track temp was 49.8°C at the start iirc

[LionsHeart]

I didn't expect to hear something like this from you. How does downforce not affect the tire load? What is this, a joke? More downforce, more grip in a corner, more speed you can take into a corner, the higher the load on the tires and the higher their temperature. To warm up the tire carcass and sidewall, downforce is also required.

You do know there's more downforce at the end of the straight than any corner, right?

Track temp was 49.8°C at the start iirc

Almost 50. That's right, that's a lot.

Yes, I know how downforce and drag change with speed. Where the dependence is quadratic, and where cubic.

[LionsHeart]

mwillems correctly noted that soft tires are not applicable in these conditions. Apparently the tires were indeed overheated.

In that case, I was wrong. I deeply apologize to all those whom I may have insulted or offended. I was wrong, this happens.

[Vanja #66]

Almost 50. That's right, that's a lot.

Yes, I know how downforce and drag change with speed. Where the dependence is quadratic, and where cubic.

Just squared, power consumption is cubic. Take a look again at any thermal camera lap video and you'll see that maximum end-of-straight downforce does not heat the tyres at all basically. Cornering does, as we know

[organic]

That's also why corners where drivers lock up the most are at braking zones at the end of very long straights - see Mexico

[LionsHeart]

Almost 50. That's right, that's a lot.

Yes, I know how downforce and drag change with speed. Where the dependence is quadratic, and where cubic.

Just squared, power consumption is cubic. Take a look again at any thermal camera lap video and you'll see that maximum end-of-straight downforce does not heat the tyres at all basically. Cornering does, as we know

On a straight line and there is no load on the tires. It just rotates quickly, nothing more. After all, there are no prerequisites for slipping. When turning, there are prerequisites for sliding; when sliding, the top layer immediately overheats, while the sidewall is still cold. With high downforce, the tire is pressed harder against the road surface and the sidewall deforms more, which favorably warms up the sidewall and frame.

[LionsHeart]

That's also why corners where drivers lock up the most are at braking zones at the end of very long straights - see Mexico

God, are you kidding me or what?

[Dafnalina]

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mark ... s-fingers/ Mark Hughes basically confirming you were all right about the tyres overheating. Interesting that Verstappen's outlap was a lot slower to avoid that.

Also just checked the times and Oscar's outlap was like 2 secs slower, too, so that might've helped a bit with grip at the start along with him doing his lap later on.

[Tomsky]

[geogate]

Blimey, there has been some real dramatic comments. Q3 didnt go great but an outstanding effort overall. Id just like to remind everyone that a certain Max Verstappen started the 2023 Miami GP in 9th - the guy just totally bottled it clearly

[_cerber1]

[BMMR61]

Just finally got to watch the replay. Enormous hats off to the team for bringing 1.5 very significant upgrades ("B spec"?) and nailing until.....

My thoughts 10 minutes after it was all over were the tyre preparation was too conservative and the tyres didn't find the window till a number of corners into the lap. This view was supported by sector times but.... it appears to be contradicted by the team and Mark Hughes (in whom I trust). My reasoning was, Lando's turns 1 and 2 were navigated without any grip and his final sector was purple. Usually an overheated tyre on a qualy lap doesn't come back, it goes away. Also Max said afterwards the C4 didn't feel any quicker than the C3 prompting me to think at turn 1 he went in hot expecting to feel the grip and it just wasn't there and he ran wide. Then as the lap progressed it seemed like the tyres came back to him. I and others here appear to have backed the wrong theory.

So for now my views are numerous. This is why Sprint weekends are bad for major upgrades. If there was time to do two runs, what tyre allocations gave rise to nobody doing a second set of C4s? If Lando killed them in Q2 on the mediums with a lap quicker than the pole time, Mclaren are looking good to develop this iteration of the car to be able to compete at or near the front. RedBull struggled in the track time available to get their car to Max's liking, yet up to that final run with a fundamentally very different spec car, McLaren actually came fairly close to aceing it!

I have been trying not to get too optimistic coming into this much anticipated weekend but this car is looking like a beast. The DRS performance graphically illustrated earlier in this forum put McLaren at the front of straight-line performance which is handy in attack and defence. As Lando would say "Let's Go!!!"

[FittingMechanics]

I think we have to be quite happy with the upgrades. The car looked great in SQ1 and SQ2 on a track that isn't suited to McLaren. We can also be "happy" that Norris made his mistake in SQ3 and not in Q3. Hopefully he can nail it in Q3.

DRS seems to work great (finally).
Norris said that the upgrades are working, he just made a mistake in SQ3.
Stella was saying before the FP1 that they are expecting "slightly less" laptime than the upgrade in Austria 2023, so I think that the 4 tenths we extrapolated from the comments is correct. We will see how it shows on track and what type of development pace Red Bull has. In the same interview, Stella said that he expects McLaren will need a couple more upgrades like this to catch Red Bull.

All in all - amazing work by the team. The development pace looks amazing and I think we can hope (expect) to fight for wins this year.

This is what F1.com thinks (take it with plenty of grains of salt but nice to see). This chart seems to suggest McLaren would be 1-2 if the full upgrade was on Piastris car.


Also looks like we were slightly faster than Red Bull on the straights.