Mercedes GP W02

[PlatinumZealot]

Would the divider in the exhaust tip modify the vortices of the exhaust flow?

What surface of the diffuser does the exhaust flow effect: top, bottom, or both?

Brian

It prevents side sway of the gasses up further in the exhaust pipe. In other words they just want the gas to shoot out straight.

[xpensive]

...
I don't think it's coincidental mercedes covered the louvres and vents "solving" their cooling issues... And suddenly the new exhaust and floor appears.... There is a relation there, wouldn't most agree?

In all honesty JET, and I'm not saying this to be mean or anything, but my firm impression is that MGP's different developments are completely random.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

And you are entitled to that X.

I prefer to think they're well thought, but produce random results.

[jav]

...
I don't think it's coincidental mercedes covered the louvres and vents "solving" their cooling issues... And suddenly the new exhaust and floor appears.... There is a relation there, wouldn't most agree?

In all honesty JET, and I'm not saying this to be mean or anything, but my firm impression is that MGP's different developments are completely random.

My impression is that reality hasn't corresponded to their models predictions.

ie. Cooling issues: This is the "symptom" and they probably surmised their side pod air flow design did not work as modelled to dissipate enough heat between the exhaust and double deck radiator. With little time to truely understand the root cause, they "try" some fixes reactively and to test theories (-ala the gils and chimney's). They may have helped with air flow and heat dissipation but hurt earodynamically.

Becuase the "fixes" are reactive, and not based on understood explanations of where the predictions failed- you end up with layer upon layer of "fixes", each with their pro's & cons and in the end, it become difficult to "understand" what's effecting what and to what degree. In our business we refer to this as hack and whack engineering.

I don't think the updates are random... I think the attempts to get the updates working as expected are "reactive trials" as opposed to reasoned design progressions.

[dren]

I don't know if it's the surface that the vortices affects, so much as it's the total amount of pressure it generates under the diffuser.
They will try all sorts, but the most important is to get the diffuser to generate the maximum amount of pressure(downforce) as possible.

I think the exhaust mounted centrally gave some benefits, but the loss of energy from exhaust to diffuser is too much. This will have a knock on effect as to how much pressure is generated under the diffuser.
Either way, it's worked ok.... But I think mercedes opted for the mid mounted exhaust simply because of KERS and the double radiators. If there was more room and had the concept been easier I think mercedes may have tried this a long time ago.

I don't think it's coincidental mercedes covered the louvres and vents "solving" their cooling issues... And suddenly the new exhaust and floor appears.... There is a relation there, wouldn't most agree?

As stated earlier, the car was designed around the maximum expansion of exhaust gas over the diffuser exit. This car was designed around the diffuser layout. The SWB is due to the diffuser length. The double radiator is a packaging solution to fit the midmounted exhaust in such a short car. The car probably produces some good numbers in areas with hits in others...CoG seems to suffer the most.

The more the exhaust gas expands at the diffuser exit, the more it helps evacuate air from under the car. Faster moving air equals lower air pressure, thus a vacuum under the car.

The rear mounted exhaust cleans up air around the rear tires and makes the diffuser more efficient. It also helps evacuate some air from the diffuser. I am guessing this layout may help move the downforce further back towards the rear...but that's a wild ass guess.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Jav,

Iam in absolute agreement with that assesment. their is historical precedent to know that Honda then Brawn and now Mercedes have struggled to get what they know on the drawing board to that what should work on the track.

To keep this on topic, I think the flaws we see related to the car are intrinsically related to the hardware and numbers that are being brought up.

The W01 had fundamental flaws, the W02 is not doing what the drawing board/computer says it should.
Brawn was excited about the W02, and in fairness the car is very far removed from anything else out their.
But look at this in context. When the Daimler sim computers are fully operational sometime in august(a little bird whispered to me ) we shall see how Mercedes addresses the W02 flaws.

The W02 is as fast in a straightline as anything out their, a testament to their windtunnel. But the moment it requires downforce and grip(hardware resource heavy features) it is way, way off.
Bob Bell will have seen many things he likes and dislikes with the W02 and I think it a matter of time before we see this car really challenging, due to him having some knowledge on Renault and its "decent @ low speed" R31 car.

And Dren thanks for the input, I meant the vacuum pressure (sticking the car to the ground) but your knowledge in this area is far better than mine, I hastily admit

[tok-tokkie]

The Renault FFE also has a brace between the top & bottom of the pipe. It also could be said to have 2 exits. Seems FIA allows the brace.

[rdr]

I just cannot get it why it took them so long to change their exhaust position. If Red Bull positioning was the superior one, why using their middle positioned style in the first place? They have got it wrong again this year, but why? Have they not learned from last year? What is it in SWB that they just don't leave it?

Morteza, I think it completely different approach to using exhaust gases energy.

1. RBR style - most basic. Simple and effective.
2. Merc style - innovative. (We can say that Renault take this idea to extreme with FE)

But don't forget that in equation we have Pirelli.
Maybe merc solution was far superior and Turkey qualy showed some glimpse of potential... than disastrous race - car was too hard on rear tires.

Who knows with changed tire compounds we'd have another diffuser story.

P.S.
I like merc step by step approach to bringing updates on the car.

[dren]

P.S.
I like merc step by step approach to bringing updates on the car.

I agree. The W02 has been plagued by reliability issues since day one of testing. If this wasn't the case, I think the car would have seen the exhaust far sooner. Also, I think the midship exhaust showed good potential early on, remember the 1+ second they gained in testing at Barcelona? They just hit a brick wall with its potential. There seems to be some setbacks to the design as well.

[dren]

And Dren thanks for the input, I meant the vacuum pressure (sticking the car to the ground) but your knowledge in this area is far better than mine, I hastily admit

I understand physics and simple fluid stuff, I am an engineer, but I certainly do not know for a fact how certain things on the car work. I can only speculate...but that's the fun part

[rdr]

I agree. The W02 has been plagued by reliability issues since day one of testing. If this wasn't the case, I think the car would have seen the exhaust far sooner. Also, I think the midship exhaust showed good potential early on, remember the 1+ second they gained in testing at Barcelona? They just hit a brick wall with its potential. There seems to be some setbacks to the design as well.

I think they understood that tuning "midship exhaust" beyond some threshold causing quick destroying of tires.
How far this point was to maximum potential of MSE we can only speculate...

P.S.
Before Turkey - cooling issues.
Turkey - evaluation of MSE.
Spain - evaluation of MSE in more race thinking setup.

Developing new exhaust. It seems logical to me.

[Ferraripilot]

I agree. The W02 has been plagued by reliability issues since day one of testing. If this wasn't the case, I think the car would have seen the exhaust far sooner. Also, I think the midship exhaust showed good potential early on, remember the 1+ second they gained in testing at Barcelona? They just hit a brick wall with its potential. There seems to be some setbacks to the design as well.

I think they understood that tuning "midship exhaust" beyond some threshold causing quick destroying of tires.
How far this point was to maximum potential of MSE we can only speculate...

P.S.
Before Turkey - cooling issues.
Turkey - evaluation of MSE.
Spain - evaluation of MSE in more race thinking setup.

Developing new exhaust. It seems logical to me.

Agreed. Undoubtedly not random, if anything they have a very German approach and are quite methodical with their approach. That being said, they may not be moving at the development speed of others seemingly because MB took so long deducing the basic capabilities of their car. Mclaren had issues during testing and were magically fixed by Oz. MB had issues and they required a few races to understand the issues at a more fundamental level and then come out with meaningful upgrades. The problem could be that W02 presented issues that were much larger and complicated than what Mclaren faced, but it's difficult to tell because they were so successful by the end of testing. It certainly doesn't help that the gap between the top 3 teams and the rest of the field is quite large.

[dren]

It seemed like the team really struggled to get a fix on cooling issues. They expected issues early on, remember this is also the first year for KERS for this team.

Then the rear tire degredation was killing any performance the car had. I'm going to guess the cooling issues were forseen, just not to this extent, and the rear tire issues blindsided them.

Mclaren struggled with the octopus exhaust and trashed it for the one they have now. I believe they had a back-up plan in hand fairly early on. I believe their fix was much easier cause it was a scrap and replace fix, Mercedes has had to rework theirs. They are stuck with the dual radiator set-up.

[xpensive]

...
Agreed. Undoubtedly not random, if anything they have a very German approach and are quite methodical with their approach.
...

I could hardly disagree more, I fail to see much logic in anything they do. most of the discussions here seems to have a touch of after-construction over it. For xample, I don't even believe there was much thought spent over the "midships" xhaust.

If there was, surely they would have found a little more sophisticated xecution than that?

[dren]

The team's approach to attacking problems and solving them is very methodical. They have improved vastly over the last year in this area. I believe this is where Ross has made the biggest impact.

You don't think much thought was put into the exhaust? They just slapped it on cause it was different than everyone else?