2013 Spanish Grand Prix - Barcelona

[Redragon]

The First 3 stins of Alonso were done 100% throttle because Ferrari were commited to 4 stops from beginning.
Last stint he just was maintainning the distance.
I understand the complains about the 2013 tyres but only comes for the teams are having problems on race pace, Red bull and Mercedes.

As Raikonen said they are the same for everyone.

Even Gary Anderson was right to call the race a 4 stopper ( I can't believe he was right) so if all the main teams were commited from the beginning to a 4 stop race none would have to preserve tyres and would to have push harder, at exception of Mercedes who in high temperatures are eating the tyres a lot. So I don't understand why everyone is saying they were cruising because of tyres. They were cruising based on their own strategy, showing they were wrong. Or why Vettel changed to 4 stops too late as he recognize.

Maybe, Ferrari is not conserving tyres so well and they just call the right strategy, knowing that most teams will try 3 stops and they will be nursing their tyres, so if you go for 4 and push harder you might be in advantage.

As Pabloeing has said in 2011 there were at begining of the year 3-4 stops hence to pirelli.
Now we have 3-4 stops too and the complains has change recently that they are to many,
it is not anymore about the tyres wearing off it is about how confussing for the spectators is (words of Horner at BBC). A political move to make the tyres harder.

But at the end, 2-3 or 3-4 stops would not change anything because the winner is the car who understand the shoes are wearing and call the right strategy, as it is the same for everyone.

The only thing will change,it is that you will understand a bit better where everyone stands on the race but nothing else.

IMO Redbull had a superior car for last 3 years and never complain but this year has two main competitors and that superiority is gone, so they are complaining about tyres to smoke what it is going on behind scenes. Or why Ferrari was checked twice by the FIA, saturday rear-duct brakes and sunday flexibility of the floor?

I like Pirelli because gives the change to get points for every single team during the year if the strategy is call right. A bit fair as small teams do big budget commitment, so they can have they rewards too for the big effort. Something that Brigdestone didn't do. As with Bridgetone the cake was shared by the big budget teams, not letting you grow if you were a small team.

[Juzh]

The First 3 stins of Alonso were done 100% throttle because Ferrari were commited to 4 stops from beginning.
Last stint he just was maintainning the distance.
I understand the complains about the 2013 tyres but only comes for the teams are having problems on race pace, Red bull and Mercedes.

As Raikonen said they are the same for everyone.

Even Gary Anderson was right to call the race a 4 stopper ( I can't believe he was right) so if all the main teams were commited from the beginning to a 4 stop race none would have to preserve tyres and would to have push harder, at exception of Mercedes who in high temperatures are eating the tyres a lot. So I don't understand why everyone is saying they were cruising because of tyres. They were cruising based on their own strategy, showing they were wrong. Or why Vettel changed to 4 stops too late as he recognize.

Maybe, Ferrari is not conserving tyres so well and they just call the right strategy, knowing that most teams will try 3 stops and they will be nursing their tyres, so if you go for 4 and push harder you might be in advantage.

As Pabloeing has said in 2011 there were at begining of the year 3-4 stops hence to pirelli.
Now we have 3-4 stops too and the complains has change recently that they are to many,
it is not anymore about the tyres wearing off it is about how confussing for the spectators is (words of Horner at BBC). A political move to make the tyres harder.

But at the end, 2-3 or 3-4 stops would not change anything because the winner is the car who understand the shoes are wearing and call the right strategy, as it is the same for everyone.

The only thing will change,it is that you will understand a bit better where everyone stands on the race but nothing else.

IMO Redbull had a superior car for last 3 years and never complain but this year has two main competitors and that superiority is gone, so they are complaining about tyres to smoke what it is going on behind scenes. Or why Ferrari was checked twice by the FIA, saturday rear-duct brakes and sunday flexibility of the floor?

I like Pirelli because gives the change to get points for every single team during the year if the strategy is call right. A bit fair as small teams do big budget commitment, so they can have they rewards too for the big effort. Something that Brigdestone didn't do. As with Bridgetone the cake was shared by the big budget teams, not letting you grow if you were a small team.

All rubbish. If RB won this race, you'd be talking the other way around. Also, Red bull was nowhere last year in the begining. These tyres are joke and should be much more durable, even if that means someone's gonna win by 1 minute ahead of everyone.

[fiohaa]

What's there to argue when you've got people with the memory of goldfishes?

Refuelling was dispensed with simply because races (usually with Michael Schumacher) went like this:

1. Get on pole.
2. Wait for cars behind to react and short fill to make sure you maintain track position.
3. Win.

Refuelling provided no variation whatsoever, no overtaking and not even any overtaking in the pits.......and people want back something they can't even remember?

1. I dont call todays version of overtaking ...overtaking. So thats the fundamental issue here.
2. as mentioned in my previous posts, you ought to watch 'the schumacher years' again, to refresh your own memory on what it was actually like. ive given a short summary of it in my previous post.
3. refuelling gave teams a choice of strategy approach, there was nothing unpredictable about it. If during the race they had to react to an event or being stuck behind someone, they could switch and short fill, do hotlaps, get track position. It was their choice and they were in control.
4. Track position now is still as important as ever, because the driver behind cannot risk overtaking due to fear of tyre wear - so how is that ANY DIFFERENT???

[andartop]

@ Redragon

Only Ferrari were NOT pushing 100%, see Alonso's comments in the post race press conference (he was doing 90% maximum).

Massa DID try to push 100% to catch up with Kimi after the last pit stop, and the result was he "burned" his rear tires after 3-4 laps and the gap started increasing again.

[Redragon]

@ Redragon

Only Ferrari were NOT pushing 100%, see Alonso's comments in the post race press conference (he was doing 90% maximum).

Massa DID try to push 100% to catch up with Kimi after the last pit stop, and the result was he "burned" his rear tires after 3-4 laps and the gap started increasing again.

If you think that the first two stints were done at 90% that Ferrari must be a real beast and not showing of the real potential.
IMO Alonso in the first 2 stints was pushing really hard to make that strategy of 4 stops work.
Alonso can say in interview afterwards that he was just 90% but he can also be playing with the psycology that other teams are listening. Imaging what Vettel must be thinking with a guy who won the race, did 4 stops instead of 3 and he was just pushing 90%.

[andartop]

I don't think Ferrari have a beast of a car, it's more likely that everyone else was going at 80%-85% to conserve their tires. You don't have to take my word for it, just read drivers' comments and look at lap times.

[Jonnycraig]

As said by Horner, Marko & Mateschitz they are cruising at 60% and with durable tyres would lap the field.

Hembery himself has confirmed this several times and admitted they are resistant to changing the tyres as they don't want RB winning every race.

It is what it is, and everyone has a right to be happy with the best team and car being knobbled in order to provide something different for viewers, but see it for what it is. A manufactured 'show', rather than actual racing.

[Gridlock]

Then Ferrari do have a beast of a car, don't they, because they can use more of their power for longer.

I could put a drag methanol engine in a Corsa but it would still be a sh#t car. The best car is the one that goes the fastest given the variables which are equal for everyone, including the regulations, the local climate and the tyres.

Next year bridgestone-like dependa-rubber is fine and arguably called for, but this year without it we'd be back in 2003, except the German at front is selling caffeinated battery acid instead of keyrings and quick Fiats.

A manufactured 'show', rather than actual racing

What do you think of the 200-odd pages of the FIA regs then? They're the same for every team but produce Brawn GP001s and RBR7s - shouldn't you complain about how the regs were designed?

[noname]

Merc is the main leader of requests for changes,and , by golly, they need them.

The last few seasons suggests whatever tires Mercedes would be given they will not be able to understand them, and they will be trailing others, which, as we could see, are much better in this area than silver boys.

[Gridlock]

I shall quote (paraphrase) Ross Brawn himself, FOTA Fan Forum 2012 at Grove (around this time last year from memory):

"What you have to remember is that we will all understand these tyres, and then you will stop talking about them. This is what happens in F1 - something changes, everyone adapts, we move on"

This race was a 2010 Montreal special - out of the ordinary, and memorable because of it. But 3-4 races from now...

Having said that, there is a separate but much more significant debate that is being obscured, which is the one about why we've seen 4 tyres delaminate in very similar fashion, having not seen canvas for years. Safety first.

[Neno]

As said by Horner, Marko & Mateschitz they are cruising at 60% and with durable tyres would lap the field.

Hembery himself has confirmed this several times and admitted they are resistant to changing the tyres as they don't want RB winning every race.

It is what it is, and everyone has a right to be happy with the best team and car being knobbled in order to provide something different for viewers, but see it for what it is. A manufactured 'show', rather than actual racing.

are you baka-ga? you didnt intepreted hembrey in right way, yes he said that they changed the tyres as they don't want RB winning every race. His statement meant on RB domination last 3 years, but he didnt say that they designed tires from who specifily RB wont have advantage, they changed tires for EVERYBODY as challenge for EVERYONE including RB. He meant only to gave all teams chance for find performances trough tires, not just aerodynamic performances (wings, floors etc). Which is all point why Pirelli is in F1 in first place, because all teams agreed they need challenge on tires including aero. Some teams find golden straw, and combined their aero performances with tire performances, some teams dont. It's not Pirelli fault, it's teams fault.

[turbof1]

I shall quote (paraphrase) Ross Brawn himself, FOTA Fan Forum 2012 at Grove (around this time last year from memory):

"What you have to remember is that we will all understand these tyres, and then you will stop talking about them. This is what happens in F1 - something changes, everyone adapts, we move on"

This race was a 2010 Montreal special - out of the ordinary, and memorable because of it. But 3-4 races from now...

Having said that, there is a separate but much more significant debate that is being obscured, which is the one about why we've seen 4 tyres delaminate in very similar fashion, having not seen canvas for years. Safety first.

There is a very, very big difference between this race and montreal 2010: the tyres went off regardless of how hard you pushed them. Actually, the drivers had to push them in order to get temperature into them. They were graining massively.

[fiohaa]

and heres martin brundle, whom you all know and love, and one of the biggest defenders of the pirelli tyres up till now:

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/new ... on-a-farce


although i like how the media, and you lot, always ignore 2 fundamental components of this 'sport':
- you can make the rules as random as you like - the teams with the biggest budgets will always win
- the amount of money in the sport is due to advertising, and the cars are primarily billboards for marketing purposes. The teams aren't funded by racing budgets, they are funded by marketing budgets. It is in their best interest to make the sport as safe and as artificial as possible, so it can be totally controlled, and the cars dont damage their bodywork and ruin the stickers.

[ironrose]

Not sure why everyone is complaining about tyres
....
Yes the tyres are degrading faster, but i dont think anyone is coasting around or on 80 - 90% of what the cars are capable of.

Based on last three years stats
2011 Spanish Grand prixMainly sunny,Fine and Dry -Air Temp 27 °C

Pole Position - 1:20.981
Race Winner - 1:39:03.301

Race Winners Strategy - 2 pit stops

2012 Spanish Grand PrixWeather Partially cloudy, dry - 22 °C

Pole Position - 1:21:707
Race Winner- 1:39:09.145

Race Winners Strategy - 2 pit stops

2013 Spanish Grand Prix Sunny, Fine and Dry - 28°C

Pole Position - 1:20:218
Race Winner - 1:39:16.596

Race Winners Strategy - 4 Pit stops.

If the Alonso did 2 additional pit stops and still managed to finish only 13 seconds behind the best race time in the last three years... its not correct that he was coasting around ... to that matter even the last one in the race finished more or less in better times compared the previous years ..oh yeah .. look at pole position times as well ... clearly the cars are faster this year ... unless i am missing a logic here

[Nomore]

Barcelona 2011 Vettel (4 pit stop) won the race after a good battle with Hamilton (4 pit stop). After the race Horner and Vettel says:

"It was an incredible race, a great show for the fans and we did an incredible work as a team and we deserved to win. I think the fans enjoyed that very much"

Barcelona 2011 Alonso (4 pit stop) which started 4th find himself leading the race at turn 1 but he finished 5th as the other drivers were much faster. After the race Alonso and Domenicali says:

"Mclaren and RB are way better than us, they won we lose, we need to work especially in aerodynamic of the car...hope we improve in other races."

----------------------------------------------------

Barcelona 2013 Alonso (4 pit stop) won the race after a good battle with Raikkonen with (3 pit stop). After the race Domenicali and Alonso says:

"It was an incredible race, a great show for the fans and we did an incredible work as a team and we deserved to win. I think the fans enjoyed that very much"

Barcelona 2011 Vettel (4 pit stop) which started 3rd find himself 2nd at turn 1 but he finished 4th as the other drivers were much faster. After the race Vettel and Horner says:

"4 pit stop are too much. The tyres are destroying the race. Ask everyone?!?!?!(really). We are not going to the speed of the car but to the speed of the tires ?!?! We have the best car."

--------------------------------------------------

Find the differenc ?...

Anyway i'm not referring to the fans that already know this, but to those which are anti-ferrari and RB fans...they are lying to you!
If you keep believing in that you can continue to do, but is just a justification at why they lose...they are not MAN enough to accept the defeat, they don't have a good personality they are just arrogant, they don't know how to lose because they think they should win by default...

i Personally don't have respect for Newey (which started all this from quail in Australia) Horner, helmut, Vettel. Sorry but i can't respect these type of persons.