FIA Thread

[Ryar]

To answer your question, not that I need to after you just ignored mine, I would have said it would be between Max, Sainz and Lewis. With such a poor run out of turn out of turn 5 for both Max and Lewis, Carlos would have been right in there as he would have set up for a decent launch out of turn 5.

Dont forget though, the williams removal was delayed due to the fire

Only one problem. Carlos didn't pit a second time. He was on one stop and had 35 old hards against Max with fresh Softs. Carlos wouldn't have got the traction required out of corners like Max, even with a compromised entry on turn 5 and neither did Ferrari had the grunt over Honda and Mercedes, especially without DRS.

Carlos still would have had a better line and a double tow, so it proves that you would never know who won if there was 1 racing lap AND all the back markers out the way.

Double tow? You saw the weaving right?

[NathanOlder]

2 cars in front causing a stronger slipstream yes. And the same out of 7.

[Ryar]

2 cars in front causing a stronger slipstream yes. And the same out of 7.

There was barely any slipstream with that weaving. Because Lewis was running a more powerful map (spicy engine) he could come level with Max on straights. Carlos would have had bigger issue of traction from turn 6 & 7 chicane as it was far more slower corner than turn 5 and was on a less powerful engine. He was a non entity in that battle which ever way you look at it. At best, he could have challenged Lewis for second position, after turn 7 if stars would have aligned.

[NathanOlder]

2 cars in front causing a stronger slipstream yes. And the same out of 7.

There was barely any slipstream with that weaving. Because Lewis was running a more powerful map (spicy engine) he could come level with Max on straights. Carlos would have had bigger issue of traction from turn 6 & 7 chicane as it was far more slower corner than turn 5 and was on a less powerful engine. He was a non entity in that battle which ever way you look at it. At best, he could have challenged Lewis for second position, after turn 7 if stars would have aligned.

So if he could battle Lewis after turn 7 like YOU say, then he could battle Max, as Lewis got level with Max after turn 7. It was possible and I'm glad you have seen it now.

Im not glad that you have now gone multiple messages without answering the original question, as expected your unable to do so as its not an answer you want. And now I've had to force you in to answering that very question by saying what I just did. Its just a shame it takes this to get any sense from you.

If the rules were followed correctly, who would have won the race ? Who made the correct call that would have resulted in not losing track position?

[Ryar]

2 cars in front causing a stronger slipstream yes. And the same out of 7.

There was barely any slipstream with that weaving. Because Lewis was running a more powerful map (spicy engine) he could come level with Max on straights. Carlos would have had bigger issue of traction from turn 6 & 7 chicane as it was far more slower corner than turn 5 and was on a less powerful engine. He was a non entity in that battle which ever way you look at it. At best, he could have challenged Lewis for second position, after turn 7 if stars would have aligned.

So if he could battle Lewis after turn 7 like YOU say, then he could battle Max, as Lewis got level with Max after turn 7. It was possible and I'm glad you have seen it now.

Im not glad that you have now gone multiple messages without answering the original question, as expected your unable to do so as its not an answer you want. And now I've had to force you in to answering that very question by saying what I just did. Its just a shame it takes this to get any sense from you.

If the rules were followed correctly, who would have won the race ? Who made the correct call that would have resulted in not losing track position?

The situation wouldn't have arised if Masi would have let the cars unlap on lap 56. That was his mistake. If he would have called it right, may be he would have if the team personnel from Merc and RB wouldn't be in his ears disturbing him, then we wouldn't be debating this.
Your question is hypothetical as it assumes Masi didn't follow rules, which he did. If he didn't, why did Mercedes drop the case?

[NathanOlder]

There was barely any slipstream with that weaving. Because Lewis was running a more powerful map (spicy engine) he could come level with Max on straights. Carlos would have had bigger issue of traction from turn 6 & 7 chicane as it was far more slower corner than turn 5 and was on a less powerful engine. He was a non entity in that battle which ever way you look at it. At best, he could have challenged Lewis for second position, after turn 7 if stars would have aligned.

So if he could battle Lewis after turn 7 like YOU say, then he could battle Max, as Lewis got level with Max after turn 7. It was possible and I'm glad you have seen it now.

Im not glad that you have now gone multiple messages without answering the original question, as expected your unable to do so as its not an answer you want. And now I've had to force you in to answering that very question by saying what I just did. Its just a shame it takes this to get any sense from you.

If the rules were followed correctly, who would have won the race ? Who made the correct call that would have resulted in not losing track position?

The situation wouldn't have arised if Masi would have let the cars unlap on lap 56. That was his mistake. If he would have called it right, may be he would have if the team personnel from Merc and RB wouldn't be in his ears disturbing him, then we wouldn't be debating this.
Your question is hypothetical as it assumes Masi didn't follow rules, which he did. If he didn't, why did Mercedes drop the case?

How truely sad. Really is no point talking to you on the matter any more. Didn't Michael Masi say in 2020 in Germany that the restart was delayed because he had to allow all cars to unlap themselves. All cars
. That was the rule he broke in 2021, so its not hypothetical at all is it. This is hilarious, I have you on a hook and there's no way you can wriggle away. But I tell you what, I'll cur the line and let you go, you'll just have to put up with that hook in your lip for a while.

Good day and good bye.

[siskue2005]

There was barely any slipstream with that weaving. Because Lewis was running a more powerful map (spicy engine) he could come level with Max on straights. Carlos would have had bigger issue of traction from turn 6 & 7 chicane as it was far more slower corner than turn 5 and was on a less powerful engine. He was a non entity in that battle which ever way you look at it. At best, he could have challenged Lewis for second position, after turn 7 if stars would have aligned.

So if he could battle Lewis after turn 7 like YOU say, then he could battle Max, as Lewis got level with Max after turn 7. It was possible and I'm glad you have seen it now.

Im not glad that you have now gone multiple messages without answering the original question, as expected your unable to do so as its not an answer you want. And now I've had to force you in to answering that very question by saying what I just did. Its just a shame it takes this to get any sense from you.

If the rules were followed correctly, who would have won the race ? Who made the correct call that would have resulted in not losing track position?

The situation wouldn't have arised if Masi would have let the cars unlap on lap 56. That was his mistake. If he would have called it right, may be he would have if the team personnel from Merc and RB wouldn't be in his ears disturbing him, then we wouldn't be debating this.
Your question is hypothetical as it assumes Masi didn't follow rules, which he did. If he didn't, why did Mercedes drop the case?

The track was not clear on the end of lap 56, it was only clear on lap 57... go back and watch the marshals were still there when the cars went past then on lap 56. So how can Masi annouce to let go unlapped cars?

[AeroDynamic]

Were they clearing debris on lap 56? just because the car is gone doesn't mean checking the integrity of the barrier or clearing debris is finished. Perhaps there was Oil on the ground that needed clearing? I didn't look into it myself but I doubt Masi forgot to call the safety car in a lap earlier, not with all the pressure and lobbying from RBR

[taperoo2k]

their decision making hinged on Masi following the rules. He did not. Thats the only reason why RBR won. The only 'outsmarting' they did, was lobbying Masi. If what they did was so smart, why did they need to ask for a racing lap and lobby him so hard that F1 have had to ban that capability?

Mercedes essentially gambled on what Masi was to do and lost!

Mercedes didn't gamble, they expected Masi to follow the rules not make things up as he went along. I've been watching F1 since the early 1990's and I've never seen rules being disregarded in that way before by a Race Director. Charlie Whiting is a hard act to follow and tbh Masi isn't upto the job.

I'm a McLaren fan before you ask, If Max had been in the position Lewis was in, you'd likely be complaining about it now.
I expect the rules the FIA set to be followed by the Race Director and not be changed through team bosses hounding them over the radio.

[nzjrs]

their decision making hinged on Masi following the rules. He did not. Thats the only reason why RBR won. The only 'outsmarting' they did, was lobbying Masi. If what they did was so smart, why did they need to ask for a racing lap and lobby him so hard that F1 have had to ban that capability?

Mercedes essentially gambled on what Masi was to do and lost!

Mercedes didn't gamble, they expected Masi to follow the rules not make things up as he went along. I've been watching F1 since the early 1990's and I've never seen rules being disregarded in that way before by a Race Director. Charlie Whiting is a hard act to follow and tbh Masi isn't upto the job.

I'm a McLaren fan before you ask, If Max had been in the position Lewis was in, you'd likely be complaining about it now.
I expect the rules the FIA set to be followed by the Race Director and not be changed through team bosses hounding them over the radio.

But it was a gamble. It was a gamble the race would not restart in 5 laps. You can think it was a gamble with good odds, but it is always like that with SC.

[oT v1]

Mercedes essentially gambled on what Masi was to do and lost!

Mercedes didn't gamble, they expected Masi to follow the rules not make things up as he went along. I've been watching F1 since the early 1990's and I've never seen rules being disregarded in that way before by a Race Director. Charlie Whiting is a hard act to follow and tbh Masi isn't upto the job.

I'm a McLaren fan before you ask, If Max had been in the position Lewis was in, you'd likely be complaining about it now.
I expect the rules the FIA set to be followed by the Race Director and not be changed through team bosses hounding them over the radio.

But it was a gamble. It was a gamble the race would not restart in 5 laps. You can think it was a gamble with good odds, but it is always like that with SC.

Just to add the mood of this board during the race, it was mused that if Merc had come in, RBR would naturally stay out and secure position…..but the fear was Masi would just play it out under SC to secure the new WC. Sounds silly in a perfect world, but it was a legit fear.

[Wouter]

I assume he is another Max fan.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/sulli ... e/8227137/

Sullivan: Masi “works like a dog” in F1 race director role

Indy 500 winner and long-time FIA driver steward Danny Sullivan has backed Formula 1’s under-fire race director Michael Masi, saying he should be given credit because he “works like a dog all year long”.

“It’s a lot of pressure, because you’re trying to make the right decision and follow all the rules,” said Sullivan. “At best case on the internet, you’ve got people 51% happy and 49% pissed off with every decision.

“I do think that it’s unfair to blame Michael Masi. He made a decision based on a lot of things that go back a year or two that was ‘let’s finish under green’, for example.

“Michael is one guy – he does track inspections, he does this, he does that. I mean the guy works like a dog all year long!

“At the end of this deal, everybody’s exhausted, you’re just trying to make the right decision.”

“We’ve never had a discussion over where anybody is sat in the championship, what it did with points, none of that in 13 years has ever been a part of the discussion,” he said. “Now if somebody has that in the back of their mind, nobody has ever brought it out in the stewards’ room.

“We just look at the data, all the cameras, everything. This is the alleged infraction – yea or nay – and if it’s a yea, the penalties are all pretty much set. If it’s extreme, it’s this, if it’s not, it’s that.

“I’ve worked with all the chief stewards, the second stewards, and it’s always been that way. If we’re not sure, we always ask a question. And that’s been the same to Charlie Whiting or Michael Masi. You make the best decision you can on the information you’ve got.”

“It’s gotten a little out of hand,” said Sullivan. “Ultimately he has to make the decision and the more support you can get around him [the better], but the problem is you don’t have time to call a conference.

“When you’re trying to get an accident cleared up, get corner workers off the track and everything ready to go, it’s not like there is time for, ‘hey guys, lets huddle up here’. And then you’ve got this radio situation [with the teams’ messages to race control being broadcast], that’s wrong in my opinion.

“Michael’s a good guy, Charlie really believed in him. He worked with Charlie for years, he learned from the best. And Charlie had so much knowledge, he developed the whole deal, growing up as an F1 mechanic and going through the full thing, so replacing that kind of background is hard to find.”

Here's another one:

Tobi Grüner
Alfa Romeo Sporting Director Beat Zehnder has defended Michael Masi for his actions at Abu Dhabi:
"There wasn't much he did wrong." Zehnder also talks about new ideas to improve safety car rules. #AMuS

[Oleo]

So if he could battle Lewis after turn 7 like YOU say, then he could battle Max, as Lewis got level with Max after turn 7. It was possible and I'm glad you have seen it now.

Im not glad that you have now gone multiple messages without answering the original question, as expected your unable to do so as its not an answer you want. And now I've had to force you in to answering that very question by saying what I just did. Its just a shame it takes this to get any sense from you.

If the rules were followed correctly, who would have won the race ? Who made the correct call that would have resulted in not losing track position?

The situation wouldn't have arised if Masi would have let the cars unlap on lap 56. That was his mistake. If he would have called it right, may be he would have if the team personnel from Merc and RB wouldn't be in his ears disturbing him, then we wouldn't be debating this.
Your question is hypothetical as it assumes Masi didn't follow rules, which he did. If he didn't, why did Mercedes drop the case?

The track was not clear on the end of lap 56, it was only clear on lap 57... go back and watch the marshals were still there when the cars went past then on lap 56. So how can Masi annouce to let go unlapped cars?

False, the last 3 marshalls are in the midst of evacuating the track as the pack arrives, on Gasly's onboard (final car in the pack) the track is indeed clear as he passes, at that point Hamilton has not crossed the finish line.

[siskue2005]

The situation wouldn't have arised if Masi would have let the cars unlap on lap 56. That was his mistake. If he would have called it right, may be he would have if the team personnel from Merc and RB wouldn't be in his ears disturbing him, then we wouldn't be debating this.
Your question is hypothetical as it assumes Masi didn't follow rules, which he did. If he didn't, why did Mercedes drop the case?

The track was not clear on the end of lap 56, it was only clear on lap 57... go back and watch the marshals were still there when the cars went past then on lap 56. So how can Masi annouce to let go unlapped cars?

False, the last 3 marshalls are in the midst of evacuating the track as the pack arrives, on Gasly's onboard (final car in the pack) the track is indeed clear as he passes, at that point Hamilton has not crossed the finish line.

So, evaluating the track means its not clear... they to evaluate everything before they give it all clear! So on lap 56 as u said there were 3 marshalls on the track when the last car came through the 3rd last corner, which means it was not clear. So what i said is absolutely true, thank you for the confirmation

[NathanOlder]

The situation wouldn't have arised if Masi would have let the cars unlap on lap 56. That was his mistake. If he would have called it right, may be he would have if the team personnel from Merc and RB wouldn't be in his ears disturbing him, then we wouldn't be debating this.
Your question is hypothetical as it assumes Masi didn't follow rules, which he did. If he didn't, why did Mercedes drop the case?

The track was not clear on the end of lap 56, it was only clear on lap 57... go back and watch the marshals were still there when the cars went past then on lap 56. So how can Masi annouce to let go unlapped cars?

False, the last 3 marshalls are in the midst of evacuating the track as the pack arrives, on Gasly's onboard (final car in the pack) the track is indeed clear as he passes, at that point Hamilton has not crossed the finish line.

The marshalls need to be all back to thier posts. So if Gasly was in that corner, Hamilton would have been very close to the end of the lap, so once the Marshals all reported back to race control to say they were all back, Lewis would have definitely been over the line.