Mercedes W14 Speculation Thread

[Venturiation]

They never downgraded the floor. They had to raise the ride height to offset the porpoising. They most definitely didn't downgrade there powerplant either. Only Ferrari had to do that because of reliability.

Couldn't find the quotes immediately but both drivers around the time of the Barcelona 2022 floor upgrade discussed how the update was solving porpoising but at the same time they were removing performance by doing so. They were able to reduce the ride height and gained grip by doing this.

But I believe these quotes are not really relevant anymore. At that stage Mercedes didn't really understand the magnitude of the w13 woes to be honest, and it seems they've opted for the entirely different aero map according to toto which is in line with other comments he's made

So I think this "lost performance" from Barcelona floor onwards was performance that's never really accessible in reality for these cars. But I'm happy to eat my words if they come with the og 2022 concept again and this time don't porpoise

but they say their performance in bahrain was really good and the car didn't suffer a lot

so this year with bahrein the car can look good then it's a downfall the following races

[organic]

They never downgraded the floor. They had to raise the ride height to offset the porpoising. They most definitely didn't downgrade there powerplant either. Only Ferrari had to do that because of reliability.

Couldn't find the quotes immediately but both drivers around the time of the Barcelona 2022 floor upgrade discussed how the update was solving porpoising but at the same time they were removing performance by doing so. They were able to reduce the ride height and gained grip by doing this.

But I believe these quotes are not really relevant anymore. At that stage Mercedes didn't really understand the magnitude of the w13 woes to be honest, and it seems they've opted for the entirely different aero map according to toto which is in line with other comments he's made

So I think this "lost performance" from Barcelona floor onwards was performance that's never really accessible in reality for these cars. But I'm happy to eat my words if they come with the og 2022 concept again and this time don't porpoise

but they say their performance in bahrain was really good and the car didn't suffer a lot

so this year with bahrein the car can look good then it's a downfall the following races

Barcelona floor upgrade that depowered their floor was brought midway through the season at the Barcelona race not Barcelona testing, if that's not clear

I think it's true that any team can have ups and downs, especially with a new car. That is even more true for a team pushing the envelope and going for a solution that's an extreme interpretation. Also they didn't seem to expect porpoising at all unlike RB and McLaren so perhaps there's some inexperience within their team working on this sort of aero problem and that could rear its head again. So I could see a turbulent 2023 being possible again for sure

Struggling for understanding the car in 2022 doesn't preclude merc from struggling again, if anything the opposite

[Venturiation]

Barcelona floor upgrade that depowered their floor was brought midway through the season at the Barcelona race not Barcelona testing, if that's not clear

i know, it's the team that said that the car was very competitive in bahrain ( first race) and they tought they would be way behind

[carisi2k]

Yeah it was simulated performance they lost and not actual performance that they had because at Imola Max lapped Lewis and so Mercedes gained performance at Barcelona in that regards rather then lost it. However at no time did they turn the power unit down as that was working fine.

[carisi2k]

Barcelona floor upgrade that depowered their floor was brought midway through the season at the Barcelona race not Barcelona testing, if that's not clear

i know, it's the team that said that the car was very competitive in bahrain ( first race) and they tought they would be way behind

The car wasn't competitive at Bahrain. That was a race between Red Bull and Ferrari and Mercedes only gained there positions because of a late safety car and a double DNF by Red Bull. Otherwise they weren't anywhere to be seen and still had significant porpoising although they were unaware of the later bouncing in the corner issues at this stage because Bahrain isn't a circuit that would have given this issue.

[ringo]

I am expection a zero pod with 1 of 2 funky shapes. An MP4-26 type zero pod or one of the low slung pods of the 80s f1 cars. Just hoping for a drastic revision if theyre gonna stick to it.
If they copy redbull or ferrari, they have no chance of winning as they will be behind.

Those small 80's pods never did any good and were always on some of the worst cars on the grid. Oh and that mp4/26 was not the most successful car either.

It doesn't matter if it was not the most successful. I was referring to a concept that would allow the zeropod to share the whole tyre wake mitigation property as the big pods.
I think you are focusing more on responding to me, rather than reasoning.

[ringo]

The floor sealing theory holds more merrit. And that one is acheivable with a revised zero pod.

To improve this with zeropods, inlet can't go down to the floor, let alone being the widest in that zone. This would mean there is no room for rule interpretation allowing the mid wing. And everything points to mid wing downwash being the greates benefit of zeropod design.

It doesn't have to go down to the floor. It can remain at the same height. All that would happen is a bulge downstream of the opening on the outer flank of the sidepod.
Just imagine the bathtub style pods, but the front open similar to the MP4-26.

As for the 80s design. I am imagine the current zeropod, but a more rectangular and sloped outer edge.

Basically the two concepts I am suggest have that outer flank to push the air wide, similar to what the big pods are doing on the other cars.

As for the midwing, it will not be needed with the above designs. Just visualize it in your mind. That midwing is there because of the downward slope of the current zeropod. Or if you can do a modification to your current zero pod model, see for yourself.

[Luscion]

Best indication we will get of the W14 is when they do their shakedown and we get the response from Lewis and George, which iirc is on the 15th

[AR3-GP]

Barcelona floor upgrade that depowered their floor was brought midway through the season at the Barcelona race not Barcelona testing, if that's not clear

i know, it's the team that said that the car was very competitive in bahrain ( first race) and they tought they would be way behind

Competitive? Kevin Magnussen fresh out of retirement was on their pace in a Haas.

[carisi2k]

As for the 80s design. I am imagine the current zeropod, but a more rectangular and sloped outer edge.

Basically the two concepts I am suggest have that outer flank to push the air wide, similar to what the big pods are doing on the other cars.

As for the midwing, it will not be needed with the above designs. Just visualize it in your mind. That midwing is there because of the downward slope of the current zeropod. Or if you can do a modification to your current zero pod model, see for yourself.

It won't work because the air just tumbles uncontrollably without barge boards. The sidepods could be made small before because the barge boards cleaned up and adjusted the flow. With barge boards banned this control has to be done by the sidepod and this is where the small pod fails. It can't do the controlling of the air like the other sidepods Not only that but I suspect the mid wings actually makes things worse.

[carisi2k]

Couldn't find the quotes immediately but both drivers around the time of the Barcelona 2022 floor upgrade discussed how the update was solving porpoising but at the same time they were removing performance by doing so. They were able to reduce the ride height and gained grip by doing this.

But I believe these quotes are not really relevant anymore. At that stage Mercedes didn't really understand the magnitude of the w13 woes to be honest, and it seems they've opted for the entirely different aero map according to toto which is in line with other comments he's made

So I think this "lost performance" from Barcelona floor onwards was performance that's never really accessible in reality for these cars. But I'm happy to eat my words if they come with the og 2022 concept again and this time don't porpoise

How can you downgrade the floor when the new floor allowed them to run faster because it helped them avoid most of the porpoising issues they had. I would suggest that was an upgrade rather then a downgrade. It doesn't matter what downforce they think they had when they couldn't access it with the original floor.

[carisi2k]

Merc need to find 1.2 sec in order to be competitive. With ferrari and red bull

they need more than that, last year they were 1 second slower and the other teams will find big gains this season

if the rumors about the ferrari 1 second faster is true then mercedes needs more than 2 seconds just to match it

On average get a and red bull where 7 tenths aherd of merc and in the last race 3 tenths off red bull in race pace

No they were they were still 7 tenths off.

[AR3-GP]

Merc need to find 1.2 sec in order to be competitive. With ferrari and red bull

they need more than that, last year they were 1 second slower and the other teams will find big gains this season

if the rumors about the ferrari 1 second faster is true then mercedes needs more than 2 seconds just to match it

On average get a and red bull where 7 tenths aherd of merc and in the last race 3 tenths off red bull in race pace

Red Bull was quite a bit more than 3 tenths ahead in the last race at sea level.

[Vanja #66]

As for the midwing, it will not be needed with the above designs. Just visualize it in your mind. That midwing is there because of the downward slope of the current zeropod. Or if you can do a modification to your current zero pod model, see for yourself.

So what would be the point of zeropods? Clearly not low drag...

[F1Krof]

Another day, another livery color tease by Merc.
I do enjoy them though

https://i.imgur.com/Jf3SCQ5.jpg

My prediction is that they're going 'Bold High Contrast' color retro design.