Mercedes AMG F1 W03

[Forza]

Japan - Fp1

[Morteza]

[gray41]

Was this tested in Fp1?

[Richard]

A large number of "I'm disappointed with team" posts have been moved to the team thread. There's a clue in the title

Please remember that the car threads are meant to be about that actual car. if your comment is about something that is not on the car, then it doesn't belong in here! Thanks.

[ForMuLaOne]

....but we may talk about things that are NOT on that car. Because it is as simple as that. There are no ductless brake coolings like sauber, no diffusor aids at the rearwing endplates, no gurneys, no turning vanes at the top of the side pods and so on. So, if a car lacks speed we can be disappointed as reasons for it are quite (in)visible.

[user001]

red bull introduced his ddrs and its beeing said that its a great advantage beeing in the frame of half a second gain in suzuka. in the beginning of the season RB said, that their ddrs is not a great advantage. any numbers or estimates from your side? i foggly remember an article where it was mentioned the gain would be about 2 or 3 tens depending on the track.

[aral]

red bull introduced his ddrs and its beeing said that its a great advantage beeing in the frame of half a second gain in suzuka. in the beginning of the season RB said, that their ddrs is not a great advantage. any numbers or estimates from your side? i foggly remember an article where it was mentioned the gain would be about 2 or 3 tens depending on the track.

Red Bull were talking about the stalling of the FRONT wing on the Merc. Lotus, and then Merc have since studied the pssibility that the rear wing is more beneficial, trying to make a passive system that will work without DRS activation. Red Bull have gone a slightly different path. Merc are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Neither system is effective, for differing reasons. Newey triumphs again.

[user001]

...

why is merc the only team having cooling slots right besides the exhaust? do they still have probs with cooling the car? i do not recall but is there any other team with such cooling slots in this area? i believe not?

doesn't this cooling affect the whole coanda stream?

Maybe it's cocky but do they actually think about what they are doing on a wider perspective??

[Ozan]

why is merc the only team having cooling slots right besides the exhaust? do they still have probs with cooling the car? i do not recall but is there any other team with such cooling slots in this area? i believe not?

doesn't this cooling affect the whole coanda stream?

Maybe it's cocky but do they actually think about what they are doing on a wider perspective??

Mclaren has the same cooling gills right where w03's suspension arms join the body. Ferrari has a big cooling outlet right near the exhaust. Coanda exhausts+off-throttle mappings are creating big temperatures around exhausts, so these gills are needed.

[user001]

why is merc the only team having cooling slots right besides the exhaust? do they still have probs with cooling the car? i do not recall but is there any other team with such cooling slots in this area? i believe not?

doesn't this cooling affect the whole coanda stream?

Maybe it's cocky but do they actually think about what they are doing on a wider perspective??

Mclaren has the same cooling gills right where w03's suspension arms join the body. Ferrari has a big cooling outlet right near the exhaust. Coanda exhausts+off-throttle mappings are creating big temperatures around exhausts, so these gills are needed.

that's correct, but the mclaren (as well as the ferrari) has his cooling grills on the inside and not outside relative to the exhaust. as far as i can tell gases/fluids attach to surfaces on high speeds(thats what the coanda effect is all about) and for instance with the mclaren the blowout of the cooling streams besides the stream of the exhaust. Therefore with the Merc solution the cooling/heating gas mixes up the actual exhaust gases, disturbing the blowing of the diffuser -> less downforce -> higher tyre wear (though merc claims they improved it).

surely they simulated it in the CFDs and in the windtunnel, but i doubt what they are doing.

maybe they see any advantage. i don't see which.

just my sentiments but this seems rather strange for me.

[Ozan]

that's correct, but the mclaren (as well as the ferrari) has his cooling grills on the inside and not outside relative to the exhaust. as far as i can tell gases/fluids attach to surfaces on high speeds(thats what the coanda effect is all about) and for instance with the mclaren the blowout of the cooling streams besides the stream of the exhaust. Therefore with the Merc solution the cooling/heating gas mixes up the actual exhaust gases, disturbing the blowing of the diffuser -> less downforce -> higher tyre wear (though merc claims they improved it).

surely they simulated it in the CFDs and in the windtunnel, but i doubt what they are doing.

maybe they see any advantage. i don't see which.

just my sentiments but this seems rather strange for me.

Theoretically speaking, I totally agree with you on gills' disturbing the airflow and mixing issue. But they are new on this coanda type exhaust system and they use different versions of it (some with gills and the other with none-gills)

[shotzski]

In all fairness to the Mercedes team, I think they're doing an "in-season testing" of parts, then carry them over with next year's car. They're not going to beat even the Lotus in standings anyway, so might as well test new parts for the next campaign. Just my thoughts

[user001]

In all fairness to the Mercedes team, I think they're doing an "in-season testing" of parts, then carry them over with next year's car. They're not going to beat even the Lotus in standings anyway, so might as well test new parts for the next campaign. Just my thoughts

good point. the likelyhood for them to beat lotus is indeed no so high. but they could be intercepted by sauber. how much money difference would that mean?

[shotzski]

In all fairness to the Mercedes team, I think they're doing an "in-season testing" of parts, then carry them over with next year's car. They're not going to beat even the Lotus in standings anyway, so might as well test new parts for the next campaign. Just my thoughts

good point. the likelyhood for them to beat lotus is indeed no so high. but they could be intercepted by sauber. how much money difference would that mean?

They must come up with ways on how to balance their situation: introduce updates while going for points and avoid being overtaken by Sauber. But with their current form (eg. Crashing, car failure, lack of pace), Sauber should be able to overtake them. Especially now that both Sauber drivers are in good form. It will be best for Mercedes to just hang on with what they have now, and pray they would achieve another BRAWN '09 campaign next season.

[dren]

that's correct, but the mclaren (as well as the ferrari) has his cooling grills on the inside and not outside relative to the exhaust. as far as i can tell gases/fluids attach to surfaces on high speeds(thats what the coanda effect is all about) and for instance with the mclaren the blowout of the cooling streams besides the stream of the exhaust. Therefore with the Merc solution the cooling/heating gas mixes up the actual exhaust gases, disturbing the blowing of the diffuser -> less downforce -> higher tyre wear (though merc claims they improved it).

surely they simulated it in the CFDs and in the windtunnel, but i doubt what they are doing.

maybe they see any advantage. i don't see which.

just my sentiments but this seems rather strange for me.

Perhaps the WO3 benefits from better airflow around the sidepods and rear section. Maybe that is why they keep the cooling to the outside of the exhaust stream. Maybe it doesn't have as bad as an effect as you think it does? Maybe Mercedes are forced to go this route because of packaging constraints, especially since the car wasn't designed around this type of exhaust.