2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[CHT]

Teams such as Mclaren should be familiar with ground effect as well. They are still at the same team that won with Alain Prost and Senna. I am sure all the technical know how and data are still kept in their database

[chrisc90]

Bouncing problems returns for Mercedes with latest upgrade.

Toto Wolff on the bouncing that the W14 experienced this weekend:

“We've had a lot of bouncing this weekend. Both Lewis and George said they bounced on the brakes and it hit the tyres. It limited their pace. We had an upgrade that added downforce, but maybe that wasn't good…”

“We have to put our heads together to find out why. The problem is that the downforce measurement tool that worked for the last 10 years no longer works. So why is it reflected in the data?" We need analysis to see if it will.”

Merc struggling with tooling and simulations?

[Willy]

Yes the bouncing returned and was the limiting factor with it's ramifications on tyre usage.
With one free practice session that had limited feedback due to the weather, and some updates thrown into the mix, Merc were always going to have difficulties. Mercedes prep form has been consistent this year, and FP is a place they start off on the back foot, collate their data and move forwards as the weekend progresses. No coincidence the less FP running they have the worse they perform.
Even with all the issues, the Ferrari couldn't get away from Hamilton at a track Ferrari were very confident at.


https://racingnews365.com/mercedes-trap ... rcle-wolff

Leclerc was managing pace while Lewis was attacking. It would have been the same if both cars switched the places. There was not a great differentiator. Leclerc knew he can't catch the Red Bull of Perez, so was happy to manage the situation. After the 2nd stop when Leclerc came out a little over a second ahead, he then pulled some decent gap again and maintained it at over 2 seconds. Every time Lewis pushed, Leclerc responded. McLaren gambled for wet weather and paid the price. Lot of work to do to even pull ahead of Ferrari now with McLaren also on the horizon. Both of them have more wind tunnel time than Mercedes while Mercedes also has issues with correlation.

[organic]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/wolff ... /10502601/

“The main limiting factor was the bouncing - the car was just bouncing literally on every straight,” explained Wolff.

“Even Blanchimont was a corner where Lewis had to lift, and it is an easy flat normally. So, you’re bouncing on the straight, you overheat the tyres under braking, and that is a vicious circle.

“It was the main limiting factor this weekend. It’s frustrating to check out for the holidays like this but [the next few days] we’ve got to understand more based on the data.”

"I think the floor could have been the reason why we’ve been bouncing, but we’re going to see it in the data."

“And maybe there’s something that we need to find, because I still believe the direction that we’re going now is the right one.”

[dans79]

I think Toto is either lying or out of his depth.

It was a sprint weekend, so practice time was very limited.

They didn't have a singal dry session prior to the race.

They brought several upgrades that would require a different setup to previous weekends.

[ValeVida46]

Leclerc was managing pace while Lewis was attacking. It would have been the same if both cars switched the places. There was not a great differentiator. Leclerc knew he can't catch the Red Bull of Perez, so was happy to manage the situation. After the 2nd stop when Leclerc came out a little over a second ahead, he then pulled some decent gap again and maintained it at over 2 seconds. Every time Lewis pushed, Leclerc responded. McLaren gambled for wet weather and paid the price. Lot of work to do to even pull ahead of Ferrari now with McLaren also on the horizon. Both of them have more wind tunnel time than Mercedes while Mercedes also has issues with correlation.

I still didn't see LeClerc walk away from Hamilton. And Hamilton was managing his pace too, given Merc had higher rate of deg, following a car closely will only increase that drop off. So they were very evenly matched.
McLaren threw away the first half of the season, so on balance being 144 points behind Mercedes with 10 races left to go is inconsistent. Maybe they close the gap? I wouldn't bet on it though. Ferrari being 56 points behind might still finish ahead of Mercedes.
Merc generally underperform at sprint weekends, and the W13 needs dialling in to perform.
Will be interesting to see how they evolve in the next race weekend with fully allotted practices.

[Just_a_fan]

The team's design decisions and apparent confusion over their cars' performance the past 2 seasons has always pointed to a simulation issue.

I've no doubt that they'd be able to turn things around if they had tools that allowed them to understand this formula as well as Red Bull have, but unfortunately it feels like they're still a long way off that point.

Taking the positives out of that though; they have at least managed to produce a car at the sharp end of the chasing pack despite this fundamental issue so if they can get their tools sorted I'd fully expect them to get a lot closer than anyone else can.

Merc may be handicapped by the lack of experience in ground effect?

Lack of experience of tunnel cars.

All F1 cars have been ground effect since the 1970s.

[organic]

I think Vesti is set to drive in FP1 at Mexico according to a few reports

[Farnborough]

The team's design decisions and apparent confusion over their cars' performance the past 2 seasons has always pointed to a simulation issue.

I've no doubt that they'd be able to turn things around if they had tools that allowed them to understand this formula as well as Red Bull have, but unfortunately it feels like they're still a long way off that point.

Taking the positives out of that though; they have at least managed to produce a car at the sharp end of the chasing pack despite this fundamental issue so if they can get their tools sorted I'd fully expect them to get a lot closer than anyone else can.

Merc may be handicapped by the lack of experience in ground effect?

Lack of experience of tunnel cars.

All F1 cars have been ground effect since the 1970s.

Along with Toto's comments over the years about RB "driving around like doing a handstand" all relevant to making a floor like this work with virtual edge sealing etc. Cockey at the time not now though.

[omegacel71]

Maybe they were desperate to get data about the upgrade package going into the break.

[cplchanb]

Teams such as Mclaren should be familiar with ground effect as well. They are still at the same team that won with Alain Prost and Senna. I am sure all the technical know how and data are still kept in their database

the designers of the original 80s GE cars are either retired or dead. there is no way mclaren couldve applied anything from the 80s to the current gen.

[dans79]

Teams such as Mclaren should be familiar with ground effect as well. They are still at the same team that won with Alain Prost and Senna. I am sure all the technical know how and data are still kept in their database

the designers of the original 80s GE cars are either retired or dead. there is no way mclaren could've applied anything from the 80s to the current gen.

yep, and even if the data from back then still existed (if it ever did), everything has changes so much it wouldn't be applicable.

[Kanye East]

Quite new to this however I'd like to ask, what in particular makes the W14 a much better performing car relative to others when it's low fuel?

[Just_a_fan]

Teams such as Mclaren should be familiar with ground effect as well. They are still at the same team that won with Alain Prost and Senna. I am sure all the technical know how and data are still kept in their database

Of current teams, McLaren, Williams, Ferrari, Alfa Romeo and Renault all built cars in the tunnel era up to 1982. As did Tyrell (that eventually became Mercedes via several other team names). But that is 40 years ago and a) it's doubtful any of the personnel involved then are available for the teams to talk to now, and b) they won't have had any databases back then. Drawings and notebooks. And the notebooks probably ended up in the individuals' various personal effects at home and not in some carefully managed company archive. Certainly not data as it is known today.

[Sofa King]

These are all good points, but perhaps the F1 grid today has the greatest balance of talent and physical health ever, aided by modern science. I can’t imagine any driver smokes cigarettes regularly these days, for example. Tom Brady won a Super Bowl at 43 and Phil Mickelson won a major at 50.

Lewis likely cares about racing and his off track social causes equally, which is exactly why he will be staying. Mercedes and F1 give him a global platform that is hard to find elsewhere. He is the Tiger Woods of motorsports, so F1 and Merc have every reason to entice him to stay and he doesn’t need to play by the same silly season timetable as all the other drivers, perhaps except Max. I’m sure the contract negotiations are around getting Mercedes to maximize support to any cause he champions

As long LH is fine with not winning another WDC and taking a big pay cut, I am sure he will hang around for a few more years. Having said that golf and F1 are very different sports, and one can still dream about winning PGA at the age of 50, whereas the oldest F1 driver to have won a WDC in the past 30 years is Nigel Mansell at the age of 39 back in 1992.
LH is 38 this year and realistically he is unlikely to be able to challenge RBR+Max in 2024 or even 2025 unless with FIA help. I think LH will likely head to America after F1 to continue his motorsports career.