2018 United Arab Emirates Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Abu Dhabi, 23-26 November

[dans79]

I find the talk about 2007 highly fascinating. Perhaps the mods can split it to its own topic? At the very least, it seems like a reoccurring theme for some and would warrant its own dedicated topic?

Raging xenophobia seems to be the underlying issue every time this topic comes up.

[Andres125sx]

Thank you very much for telling me what british media told to the world, but british media told what was better for his favourite british team and his promising british driver

So the biggest Spanish Alonso fan in here knows the real truth then yeah

If the British press say anything about Hamilton or Mclaren, its 100% made up. Damn, about a month ago I read in the newspapers here than Hamilton is a 5 Time World Champion, but as its in a British Paper, I guess its made up

I did provide serveral arguments and facts, but your reply about nationality and dozens smilies is impressive...

[Andres125sx]

I find the talk about 2007 highly fascinating. Perhaps the mods can split it to its own topic? At the very least, it seems like a reoccurring theme for some and would warrant its own dedicated topic?

Raging xenophobia seems to be the underlying issue every time this topic comes up.

I hope you´re kidding

[TwanV]

about bottas ' corner cutting, he only did it once not several laps in a row (unlike some). He paid the price afterwards with the state of his tires, very happy the stewards kept out of it. +1.

Ps sorry to have started about 2007, my only aim was to point out the subjectivity here that some people deny/are unaware of having. I think the British press is great and very generous towards other nationalities, unlike some national broadcasters like mine. Still when it comes to Hamilton and previously Button, they obviously are building a myth that isn't there necessarily for non Brits. and this is an international board so let's keep that perspective. Here in the Netherlands it's the same, Verstappen first and then the rest, but there's more to F1 and driver quality than the view of the fanboy. Hamilton did absolutely great this year, his first title that he really "deserved" in my view, super mature all season although he had a lot of help, still true quality. But the fact that he has 5 titles means nothing to me except that he had great cars the last years, it is a poor basis to argue on. Many of the same people question vettels quality but he has 4 too..

[hollus]

Now we can go back to the Abu Dhabi race
Why there was no penalty for Bottas cutting the track?

Whiting happened:

https://www.racefans.net/2018/11/25/why ... erstappen/

If [Bottas] had done it again we would have said he only stayed in front by virtue of going off the track. Obviously it is still an advantage if you stay in front, otherwise he might have lost the place. But under those circumstances we’ve said to the teams – and they all know – that we will normally give them one sort of ‘free one’ if you like.

I am starting to think that soooo many of F1's current problem can be traced back to Charlie. He decided when to stop the races, when to deploy SC and which type, when a penalty is worthy of consideration, when crossing a line is OK, when a trick he does not undestand is legal, only to call it illegal once explained to him... and he often talks to the press before seeing the replays. /off topic off/.

[hollus]

Gentlemen, Alonso vs Hamilton in 2007 was always off topic here. It was allowed to continue while civil, but now it is devolving into personal attacks, so it ends here on the best interest of forum peace and everyone. Any further posts on the subject will be deleted and, if appearing to be personal attacks, will be treated as such.
If that discussion is of interest, feel free to open a thread for it, but even there, keep it civil.

Thank you.

[NathanOlder]

deleted

[Jackles-UK]

Now we can go back to the Abu Dhabi race
Why there was no penalty for Bottas cutting the track?

Whiting happened:

https://www.racefans.net/2018/11/25/why ... erstappen/

If [Bottas] had done it again we would have said he only stayed in front by virtue of going off the track. Obviously it is still an advantage if you stay in front, otherwise he might have lost the place. But under those circumstances we’ve said to the teams – and they all know – that we will normally give them one sort of ‘free one’ if you like.

I am starting to think that soooo many of F1's current problem can be traced back to Charlie. He decided when to stop the races, when to deploy SC and which type, when a penalty is worthy of consideration, when crossing a line is OK, when a trick he does not undestand is legal, only to call it illegal once explained to him... and he often talks to the press before seeing the replays. /off topic off/.

I’m not sure that’s fair. Charlie works in the best interests of driver & fan safety and, inevitably, the timing of such measures will occasionally benefit one driver/team over another. I’m not saying that I agree with all the decisions that have come from the stewards room this year (the Ocon/Verstappen clash as a primary example!) but to claim some of the poor races are BECAUSE of Charlie is, I think, unfair. In fact, you could argue that some of his interventions have actually improved the spectacle (China this season for instance)!

[NathanOlder]

Now we can go back to the Abu Dhabi race
Why there was no penalty for Bottas cutting the track?

Whiting happened:

https://www.racefans.net/2018/11/25/why ... erstappen/

If [Bottas] had done it again we would have said he only stayed in front by virtue of going off the track. Obviously it is still an advantage if you stay in front, otherwise he might have lost the place. But under those circumstances we’ve said to the teams – and they all know – that we will normally give them one sort of ‘free one’ if you like.

I am starting to think that soooo many of F1's current problem can be traced back to Charlie. He decided when to stop the races, when to deploy SC and which type, when a penalty is worthy of consideration, when crossing a line is OK, when a trick he does not undestand is legal, only to call it illegal once explained to him... and he often talks to the press before seeing the replays. /off topic off/.

I’m not sure that’s fair. Charlie works in the best interests of driver & fan safety and, inevitably, the timing of such measures will occasionally benefit one driver/team over another. I’m not saying that I agree with all the decisions that have come from the stewards room this year (the Ocon/Verstappen clash as a primary example!) but to claim some of the poor races are BECAUSE of Charlie is, I think, unfair. In fact, you could argue that some of his interventions have actually improved the spectacle (China this season for instance)!

Totally agree with that mate. The 1 thing I feel Charlie is a little over the top with though, is the need for a VSC everytime a car is stopped on track or in the gravel. Does a Double waved yellow even exist anymore ?

[ian_s]

I thought it was defined in the rules that the VSC or full SC must be called whenever a car stops in a dangerous place, or when any kind of machinery is required to be the wrong side of the barrier.
Jules Bianchi's crash happened under double waved yellows, which prompted the creation of the VSC

[Just_a_fan]

VSC is used where double yellows would be used and there is danger to a competitor or marshals.

40) VIRTUAL SAFETY CAR (VSC)
40.1 The VSC procedure may be initiated to neutralise a practice session or a race upon the order
of the clerk of the course.
It will normally be used when double waved yellow flags are needed on any section of track
and competitors or officials may be in danger, but the circumstances are not such as to
warrant use of the safety car itself.

The benefit of the VSC over the Safety Car is that the cars are able to circulate at a higher speed and so maintain tyre and brake temperatures/pressures. This is safer, whilst also preventing drivers from having a "red mist" moment and "forgetting to slow" for the double waved yellows. As we've seen in the past, just a decent lift was considered enough to show you were slowing near the incident but didn't really make it safer for the marshals. The VSC enforces the "we really mean you to slow down properly, you muppet" that some drivers seem to need.

In Hulk's incident, the marshals and doctor were sufficiently out of the way that the drivers on track just needed to be going slowly and there was no need for the full Safety Car. If they had been working on track or mid way along the straight, we might well have seen a full safety car to ensure the passing cars were going very slowly near them.

Obviously, if the incident is such that there is lots of debris on track, marshals working on track / near the racing line, then the full Safety Car is used to make sure they are safe.

It seems to me to be a good tiered response system and, so far, has worked well.